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Discussion on Injection site infection | |
Author | Message |
Member: Quatro |
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 12:52 pm: I had a vet come out to float my horses teeth on Monday. I was not impressed with his harsh treatment, and he was in a hurry to get in and out. He was in and out of my barn in 15 minutes. I told him that cody did not normally need to be sedated, but he gave him a small amount of sedation to take the edge off. He did not even wait 1 second to let him calm down. He was very gruff with him, trying to twitch his nose, which I do not do to my horses. I was very unhappy, but at least the next day cody had eaten all of his hay. He had been leaving alot of it previously. This morning I went out to the barn and he was just standing there with his head down. I walked him around and then noticed the huge swelling on his neck, about the size of my hand. I called another vet out, and after telling him he had injected him, he says he has an injection site infection. His temp was 103.8. He was fine yesterday. this vet gave him an antibiotic shot, some banamine and said we need to be aggressive, and he should be ok. He is coming back tomarrow for another antibiotic shot. he did finally eat after the vet left. I guess what I need is just to know that he will be ok. Dr. O, is this a common thing, or did this vet use non-sterile needles? He is a cow vet, we are very limited in our area. The new vet said to put warm wet compress on the location. and he would have to lance and drain it if he did not improve. Is there anything else I should be doing? thanks for anyones suggestions.susan |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 6:36 pm: No Susan this is not common. While I cannot tell you whether or not he used proper technique, this does happen rarely even when correct technique is used.Antibiotics and anti-inflammatories should be given everyday while the site is monitored for abscessation, sounds like your vet has this planned. DrO |
Member: Quatro |
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 9:52 pm: Thanks Dr. O. As you can imagine I will be loosing sleep tonight. He did eat his grain and is nibbling at his hay. It seems that the location has flattened out, but seems bigger to me. My husband doesn't think it is that much bigger. The vet will be by tomorrow. Thanks for your support.susan |
Member: Quatro |
Posted on Sunday, May 16, 2004 - 12:58 am: Hi Dr. O, It is saturday nite, and we just got home from an all day thing. I went into Cody's stall and again he was standing with his head down. I checked his neck and he has another hard lump, actually higher than the other one, and his whole side of his neck is hard feeling. the original site had slowly drained down to his chest, and today his neck was normal feeling. I called and woke up the vet on call, he said to give him another dose of banamine orally. When I did this he had to tip his head back, this seemed to cause pain, to the point his body was quivering His temp is 100. It normally runs 98.8 for him. The other vet gave him 2 antibiotic shots iv, and then gave me some unimprim packets. I gave one yesterday and one today. the vet on call is not one that I trust, so tomarrow, I don't know what I am going to do. Should I be worried that some secondary infection has set in, or what? sorry to be such a worrier, but I am at a loss.thanks susan |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Sunday, May 16, 2004 - 7:50 am: If the swelling and discomfort is worsening then yes I think you need to get the vet out to assess the problem. Perhaps an abscess needs to be drained or the antibiotic swithced.DrO |
Member: Quatro |
Posted on Sunday, May 16, 2004 - 6:55 pm: Dr. O. I had the vet out this afternoon. He said when he arrived that his first viewing of the horse that he "expected it to be alot worse looking" The neck swelling had evened out, but the swelling between his front legs is probably 10" long. This vet stuck a needle in the lump and said that it was not pus, but rather blood and serum. He seemed to think that was good. His temp was 100.5. It normally runs 97.-98.8 for him, but he was not concerned. He is very stiff. He gave me some banamine, 3 more packs of uniprim sulfate antibiotic, and some dmso(sp?) to rub on it twice a day. Also suggested hosing the spot down with cold water. He is not eating hay, but is eating his grain, and I have been hand grazing him. He has a little loose stool, but he has ate little besides grain, and some fresh grass.I had put a call into the "horse vet lady" about 2 hours away. I felt a little better after the first vet left. But after talking to Dr. K. she brought up the clostridal infection. I asked her how she would be able to tell what kind of infection was going on, and she said it is hard to tell. She said a culture takes too long, and "then it is too late". She also said that a clostridal infection will have little fever. He has not had a very high fever since the first day. so, now I am even more confused. I am going to give him some banamine tonight, his antibitic, and watch him. If he does not show improvement, I may have to take him up to her. My concern is if it is the gas producing clostridal infection. How do they know or not know, and when is it too late for treatment? What should I be looking for to indicate any problems. Both of the veterinians that have physically seen him, have not suggested that he has this clostridal infection, just said to watch for crackling, air type bubbles under the skin. Any more info on this would be helpful. thanks |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 6:58 am: Usually your first sign of clostridial infection is the bubbles you feel (crepitus) under the skin. If it is uncertain how things are going, one of the best ways to monitor such a injection reaction is with ultrasound as it can pick up an abscess, or poosible air pockets, quicker than you can any other way.There is no way to tell if a clostridial infection is too far along to treat, until your treatments have failed. DrO |
Member: Quatro |
Posted on Tuesday, May 18, 2004 - 12:04 am: DrO, just an update. This am, I went out to Cody's stall, he went to eat his grain, but was very stiff. When I checked him over, he had several huge hives on his hip. Of course this made me panic, thinking the gas producing bacteria. I loaded him and took him the 2 hour tirp to the horse vet. She checked his neck and said she did not think that it was the clostridal bacteria infection, since it was not very sore to the the touch, but that he had an allergic reaction to something. She thought that he was probably allergic to the sulfa in the antibiotic. He has also developed loose stools, which she thought would also be indicative of an allergic reaction to the antibiotic. She is keeping him for a few days, and administering IM antibiotics that will cover several types of bacterial infections. I am a weenie and can not give shots to even an orange, so he is staying there for observation. It did seem that after the original two doses of IV antibiotic that the vet gave he was improving, then when we put him on the powder antibiotic he went down hill. Hope that we can get this under control, and get my boy back home. She was concerned that the first vet may have missed the jugular vein when administering the sedation. Who knows.thanks, sue |
Member: Quatro |
Posted on Tuesday, May 18, 2004 - 10:53 pm: Dr. O, it will be a week tomorrow since Cody showed up with the lump and the fever. He is still not eating well, although he is grazing they said. Do these type of infections take a long time to recover from? And about how long is normal?thanks, worrying a bunch!! suz |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 7:41 am: There is no typical injection reaction, it can vary from a day of mild stiffness to a months process of a large draining wound. What you should be looking for is steady improvement in the signs of disease you see in your horse.DrO |
Member: Quatro |
Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 7:18 am: Dr. O, just one more question. Cody is still in the horse hospital. He is getting 3 injections 2xday of some heavy duty antibiotics. The swelling has gone down everywhere, but he has no appetite. He does not eat his grain. He was eating it at home, slowly. My friend stopped by and hand fed him some sweet feed yesterday. We feed sweet feed, the hospital just oats and corn mix. Could his lack of appetite be from the antibiotics? When they put my other horse on metrodiazole (sp?) he refused to eat his grain after a few days. Or should we be looking at something else going on. They say he munches very little hay, but leaves the grain untouched.I hope this episode is over soon, my nerves can't take it |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 6:37 am: More likely the inappetance is from continued soreness and if the antibiotic injections are intramuscular they may be contributing to this.DrO |
Member: Quatro |
Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 2:49 pm: Dr. O, sorry to keep bugging you, but I have tried repeatedly to get the undivided attention of the vet that cody is with. she is soooo busy, everytime I call. Apparently he has not eaten any grain since Monday of last week. They say he picks at his hay. I took him out to graze the other day, but he would not eat hay. I asked her on Tuesday to maybe check out his teeth. She called late last nite and left a message saying that he has a bad, "large" back tooth that needs to be extracted. she just did not know if she wanted to do this now, or wait for him to fully recover from the injection site thing. His neck was much better, and his movement has greatly improved, however the edema from his neck, moved down into his chest and is now in his knees. She is rubbing DMSO, and has now wrapped his bottom legs, as she is concerned about foundering. Should he be getting walked around to break up this edema, or stall rest is better? I am 1 1/2 hours away, so I can not run up there, but I will if I should be walking him. I have not been able to tal to her in person, as she is literally always busy. I have been in the house for an hour waiting on a return call. I am worried that the tooth thing is causing him not to eat, that is causing him to become weak and hard to heal himself. I would think that since he has been under heavy antibiotics, this might be a good time to extract the tooth. I don't want to be pushy with her, she is the best we have in the area. Should we wait on the tooth, till the leg edema goes away. Is it possible that he has something else going on???Sorry to bug you, I just feel like so out of touch with the situation. thanks sue |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 6:06 pm: Susan, I cannot make clinical decisions from here now nor do I have any way to know if there is something else going on. I do think it is unlikely that all of a sudden this tooth has all of a sudden become such a big deal. When horses have tooth problems they do not loose their appetite, just have difficulty chewing.Since you have taken your horse over to this hospital and left him there you have to decide do you trust their judgement or not, if not alternatives need to be found. DrO |
Member: Mwebster |
Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 7:42 pm: Susan, it might be the antibiotics that are depressing his appetite. |
Member: Quatro |
Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 11:31 am: That is what I have been thinking, because he was eating before I took him up there, albeit slowly, and not completely. He has now been on antibiotics for 11 days. When I asked her if the antibiotics would make him loose his appetite she said no. I am bringing him home today, she said he still needs to have the penicillan (sp) till the swelling goes down in his knees. Is this something that you agree with Dr. O?I would love to get him off of the antibiotics to see if he can eat, but, do not want the bacteria to take hold again?? When I talked to her personally she said the tooth is bad, and needs to be removed sometime in the future, but not that bad. Also what is up with the edema travelling down his legs? Is there anything I can do to promote the absorption? IE: water on his legs, besides the dmso? thanks, I do not do well just being patient, as you can tell. suz |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 6:22 am: Susan, without an exam I cannot know if your horse should still be on antibiotics so again I must council you to follow the advice of one you trust who can examine the horse. Going back to your earlier posts the swelling sounds like it originated in the neck and gravity has pulled it down in the legs, but there are other possiblilities, see, Equine Diseases » Lameness » Swollen, Painful, Legs. There are links in that article to other articles depending on the type or swelling you have.DrO |
Member: Quatro |
Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 8:17 pm: I feel like I am such a pain, but there are so few horse people around here to query. Cody is home, eating grain and nibbling hay, loving his pasture. The edema on his legs is finally all gone. He does still have a hardness in the area on his neck where the problem started. It is not swollen, or puffy, just hard. Will this eventually go away, or can it stick around awhile? Should I keep rubbing the dmso on his neck till the hardness is gone? I also have had to learn how to give antibiotic shots in the rump! I have anxiety attacks all the way up to the time I have to give him the shots. I hope it will only be for one more day. The dr. said he needed the antibiotics as long as the swelling was in his knees. Just curious about how long the hardness in his neck will be around, so I can find a mental place to quit worrying.thanks susan |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 8:58 am: Susan, yes the lump will go away but it may take several months. I would discontinue the DMSO.DrO |
Member: Quatro |
Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 12:35 pm: Dr. O, Cody says thank-you. He hates it! |