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  Discussion on Mare reacts towards other mares = problem.. Help
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New Member:
Tdslaye1

Posted on Monday, Aug 2, 2004 - 1:01 pm:

I have a 26y/0 rescue mare that I took out this weekend camping and for trail rides.....
She pinned her ears at every mare we came across, and if I didn't keep a firm rein would spin to try and kick the other mares.... Has anyone had this experience or have any ideas? A friend of mine recommended she be euthanized rather than trying to work with her as she is set in her ways.......... doesn't like loading either.
Member:
Canyon28

Posted on Monday, Aug 2, 2004 - 1:26 pm:

Rhonda, I would get after and punish this mare when she tries to do something like that. Slap her hard on the neck once, or kick her hard when she tries acting up like this, then go on about your business. Mares are notorious for this kind of behavior and she has been getting away with it until now. I ride in a drill team and I have had one or more of the mares I use want to kick when another rider has to ride along side me or close behind. the only way to cure them is to punish them for bad behavior, then go on as if nothing has happened. You have to do it then, in the split second after or before they try to kick or bite, or you are wasting your time and punishing the horse for something they dont remember doing a few seconds later. You will probably never be able to tie her along side another mare at your trailer, etc, but I dont tie mine together either,even if they are used to being together in the pasture at home. <p> the loading problem can be solved by simply working with her when you have lots and lots of time,but dont get mad, if you get mad, you have lost. the best way I have found is to park my trailer in the fence line of a paneled pen, and fix it so that the horse has to go inside to eat their hay. You could even put their water in there too, if she is really having a problem. that way she will train her self and find out by herself that getting inthe trailer has a reward. make sure to crank the gear down low in front, so there is no chance of the trailer tipping back from her weight. I use this method all the time on weanlings that are being readied for transporting and never have had a problem after they self teach themselves to load.
Member:
Tdslaye1

Posted on Monday, Aug 2, 2004 - 2:05 pm:

Christine,

Thank-you for the input. I am rather new to horses, and having a 26y/o I wasn't sure what to do with her. I can certainly punish if it happens again.... I was very surprised at the consistent pinning of the ears when we came upon another mare. I know she is rather attached to my gelding. Could she be jealous?
She rides great and had lots of pep, it's just the mare issue that's really bad. I have been putting a towel over her face to get her to load as well as giving her the new equire pheremone to calm her in advance. This works, but without it she refuses to line up to the ramp and dances all around. I will attempt your suggestion though with the hay. I am afraid though that my gelding will try to get in with her and cause problems. I don't have a way to separate them in the pasture.
Member:
Eoeo

Posted on Monday, Aug 2, 2004 - 2:30 pm:

Rhonda, just as a precaution, you decide to feed and water in the trailer, put blocks under the front and back so it will not jiggle when they get in. I would worry about it tlting backwards evem if you put the front lower. Just my thought. EO
Member:
Onehorse

Posted on Monday, Aug 2, 2004 - 2:39 pm:

Rhonda,

First, I want to acknowledge you for taking a rescue horse ... it shows compassion and sometimes (as you are now aware) comes with all kinds of 'hidden' problems that become apparent as time unfolds.

There are many ways to deal with the 'pinning, biting and kicking' problem but I think there is agreement that you should deal with it immediately; and, deal with it immediately when the behavior is exhibited so the horse knows that the reprimand is associated with the behavior.

The biting and kicking problem: When riding with other horses and when she exhibits the behavior I would:

1. Immediately ask her to 'work harder' and disengage her 'mind' from the 'bad' behavior by making her turn in small, tight circles away from the other horses and then trotting her away from the group of horses. This must be done with diliberateness so as to be percieved as work and reprimand at the same time.

2. When she calms down, slowly take her back to the other horses. If she exhibits the behavior again, repeat the excercise again. And again. And again. Evenutally, she'll get the message.

Remember, she's a herd animal and separating her from the other horses is punishment in the equine mind. Also, increasing the amount of energy she has to expend (walk to trot, trot to lope) is making her work.

In most cases, consistent application of the above should change the habit and gain trust at the same time. It'll take a while and your commitment to enforce this regiment is the key to success.

Loading problem. Assuming there has not been a 'traumatic' experience, then the key to teaching her to load would be working on her 'ground' manners -- specifically teaching her a basic 'walk forward' command when you're not on her. To do this, you'll need a halter, lead rope, crop and a safe place to work. Standiing along side her tap her (lightly) on her hind quarters (you're holding the end of the lead line in one hand, the crop on the other). When you tap her to go forward you may want to add a verbal command at the same time. If she steps forward, reward her. If she doesn't, add a little more pressure to the 'tap.' When she makes the connection to the tap always reward. Once she gets this tap and movement down, i.e., the 'forward command' you'll find getting her to move forward into a trailer, into a stall, into a chute, into just about anything ... will be much easier. But the bottom line is to teach your horse to move forward from the ground. Again, your goal is to gain her trust so when you ask her to go 'forward' into the trailer, she understands what the command is (forward) and she trusts you to go where you want her to.

Once the 'forward' command is second nature to her (taught away from the trailer), you can then move to more challenging 'forward' situations -- like the trailer, a confined space, a dark area.

It's surprising that lots of horse owners do not take the time to teach a horse to move forward when the owner is standing next to their horse. To me it's a basic. Also note, when teaching them to move forward from the ground you will also teach them to stop from the ground at the same time. It will make all other training excercises (like getting into a trailer) so much easier.

Also, once she's in a trailer be sure to make sure her experience in the trailer is as calming as possible. I'm convinced that many horses become hard to load because of their experience in the trailer once the trip begins, i.e., sudden accelerations and deaccelerations, taking turns at too fast a speed so the horse gets thrown from side to side, poor ventilation, etc. Remember, the ride for the horse begins the moment they enter the trailer ... not when you unload and saddle.

Best of luck. Hope this helps. Hopefully, you'll get other suggestions for your situation and get to choose the one that you feel most comfortable in administering.

As Christine notes, immediate attention (especially to the biting and kicking) MUST be dealt with quickly for safety's sake.
Member:
Chance1

Posted on Monday, Aug 2, 2004 - 2:52 pm:

Great advice from Rick! I have a small suggestion. The only thing I'd be a little careful about is making the tight circle away from the other horse. This could put her in perfect firing position. I usually disengage the hind end, away from the other horse, and then do the same exercises. It's worked well so far.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Aug 2, 2004 - 6:05 pm:

Important to remember when riding with others: Tie a large red ribbon bow in the hairs of her tail head so that others are warned (reminded) when they come up behind her. Tie the bow into a loop of hair and it will not fall down.
DrO
Member:
Lsweeney

Posted on Sunday, Oct 9, 2005 - 1:15 pm:

I have a mare like this. She is horrible. One thing to keep in mind, is that they are very sneaky. So they will actually plot against the other horses. And there is other stuff going on that you can't see. So for example, I was riding behind another mare. Well, I saw her put one ear back and slightly flick her tail. A non-seasoned rider would miss this. To my horse, this was an absolute clear signal. The next thing I knew, I had spun 180 degrees and my horse was doing donkey kicks. Now I'm a very seasoned rider, but under these circumstances, I'm just trying to stay on and haven't gotten to the discipline part yet. In the meantime, you can seriously hurt the other rider or horse.

So what I do is just keep my distance from everyone. If I'm passing horses on the trail, I will tell them that I'm riding the Tazmanian devil and let me get off the trail. Yes, I get weird looks, especially since I'm on this little 14.1 Arab who doesn't look particularly dangerous, but I'm much more comfortable a safe distance off the trail.

Another note. My mare was raised in my backyard with only her mother and grandmother. I really think she is socially retarded. We have only ridden on trails, she was never boarded at a stables, and I don't do arena work. Her experience with other horses is limited, and she looks out of a pretty paranoid window. In the arena, she is convinced that the other horses riding up behind her are coming to get her.

So with a 26 year old mare, you have 26 years of experience that you don't know about. This same mare of mine, got her back legs caught in barb wire once. Well, if she gets a twig in her tail, or even a piece of straw that is poking her, or riding through stickers, watch out. I know where the behavior is coming from, but a new owner wouldn't.
Member:
Lsweeney

Posted on Sunday, Oct 9, 2005 - 1:36 pm:

Another comment. What kind of trailer do you have? I have seen where older mares have a more difficult time with trailers. I had one and my friend had one that would get vertigo in the trailer. We went to a slant load, and they rode much better. Also, easier to get in and out.

Loading in a trailer is a big deal for most horses. Unless they have been introduced to it properly and have good experiences, loading can be difficult.

With my old mare that is now gone, the only time she got in a trailer, it was to go to a new stables, where she knew no one, everything was strange, and would never see what was familiar ever again. So she learned, don't get in the trailer. When she foaled, I was determined that my foal would not be awful in the trailer. I bought a trailer. I took them on trips around the stables. My older mare learned that we were just going for a little ride, and then we would come back to where she was safe. Huge difference in attitude. There's a lot more going on in their heads than we give them credit for.
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