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  Discussion on Seizure in 4 year old thoroghbred
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New Member:
Dishpan

Posted on Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 - 9:29 pm:

My wife and I bought our daughter a beautiful thoroughbred last year, as her equestrian talents have progressed to the point we needed to get her a better horse, one that can grow with her as she moves up in competition. His name is Be A Hero. Today, after grooming, but just before saddling, he started shaking violently, then passed out without warning, while still in the crossties. Our daughter called for help, and the stable girls were able to get his head loose. He laid out flat for a few seconds, than got to his feet as if nothing had happened. The vet came immediately, and found everything perfectly normal. He took blood, and gave us info on equine epilepsy, most of which is hardly encouraging. Even if he does not have to be put down, which I am DEAD SET against, we have been cautioned that he will probably remain very unsafe to ride, especially under demanding (eventing) riding. He has had no symptoms before that we are aware of, although he did seem to go to sleep in his cross ties once, woke up with a start and broke his halter. We are heartbroken. Our vet is calling in an equine neurologist from Ohio State, but our daughter is inconsolable. Any happy ending stories out there from anyone, or is the hope of some pleasure-type riding, with extreme care in handling, the best we can hope for? Any information would be most greatly appreciated.
Member:
Canyon28

Posted on Monday, Sep 13, 2004 - 8:18 am:

The blood tests usually show nothing. I have a little qh mare that had two siezures in the fall of her 3 yo year. She has never had another since and is almost 5 years old now. I think it was something to do with hormones, could even have been a feed problem. We even tested her for hypp, even though she has no bloodlines that are related to the horse that had the original genetic mutation. I would not get in a rush to diagnose your horse as epileptic, especially if he was back to normal in a few minutes. Maybe also have him checked for narcolepsy, which is falling asleep all the time. I dont cross tie my horses for this very reason, if they fall or get scared, they can flip over backwards and stifle themselves or injure them selves badly, especially if they are tied on concrete. I would certainly inform the breeder of this horse of any conclusive results of the next vet exam.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Sep 13, 2004 - 8:47 am:

Hello Robert,
Your case sounds like the narcoleptic form of epilepsy. Though the point of increased risk must be taken seriously, I personaly don't think a single seizure rules out the horse's future athletic hopes. Besides the article and other posts in this topic we have another topic on adult seizures that has more information in the article and other personal stories see, Equine Diseases » Nervous System » Narcolepsy, Cataplexy, and Fainting.
DrO
Member:
Dishpan

Posted on Monday, Sep 13, 2004 - 1:34 pm:

Hello Christine and Dr. O.:
Thank you for your prompt response. I spoke with the folks we purchased Hero from, in Virginia, and they were shocked that this happened. He has no blood lines suggestive of HYPP, and suggested electrolyte levels may be the culprit. We should have the panels back shortly, and I will let you know what they indicate. The former owner did say that she used to have him on electrlyte supplements twice a day in the summer, something that we were unaware of and have not been doing. We also changed stables quite recently, and the new stable has an automatic watering system, but Hero appears to have adapted quite well to it and has no problem drinking lots of water. His appetite has always been and remains quite good, although the new stable uses a slightly different feed mixture from what he is used to. The new stable people also thought Hero looked slightly underweight, although very minimally. I have also determined that this spring, upon returning from the pasture of his old stable, an oozing lump the size of an egg was discovered on Hero's head. No one knew how it got there, it was not there the day before. It has since healed up, although there is still a large lump there. I bring this up, as I note that secondary seizure disorder is sometimes related to head trauma, although the onset seems pretty far removed in time. He may have been kicked, or he may have struck his head if he had had a seizure. I'm putting all this out here, to see if any of this information may suggest a cause for his seizure other than equine epilepsy. Thank you so much for your help and encouragement.
Member:
Cara2

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 - 4:25 am:

Hello Robert,

Christine is absolutely right on both counts - blood tests are usually non-productive and just because your horse has had a single seizure it in no way means he has epilepsy. Horses can have seizures for a number of reasons but very few of them can be called true epileptics. You have already discovered a couple of possible leads for identifying what is going on so get those checked out first. In the meantime my best advice to you is to keep a diary. Write down anything and everything however trivial it may seem. I cottoned on very rapidly that after the initial apparently random seizures my mare ran exactly to a 10 day cycle - it took me a further four years to make the connection with her hormonal cycle but without my diary I might still be saying oh its just a coincidence. My diary also revealed that she is frequently wildly overexcited the day before a seizure is due so that is a useful warning sign of trouble. You asked for success stories - well no doubt you will have read my earlier posts but my mare has been successfully "treated" for 6 years. Throughout all this time apart from the initial 8 weeks when her body was adapting to the barbiturates she has been ridden as any normal horse. We carried on competing including jumping at local shows although of course technically she is sedated (I wish!)and would fail any dope tests at higher levels so this is something you must be aware of. The trouble is, I don't know if I have just been exceptionally lucky in that Cara responded so well and has had very few break-through seizures as sadly she remains one of the only treated cases in the entire UK so I don't really have anyone to compare her with. If you'd like to email me privately I can give you more information and some dos and don'ts which you might find useful. Incidentally, I would agree with Dr O, Hero sounds more like he has had a narcoleptic seizure than an epileptic one so take heart!
Helen
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 - 6:43 am:

Considering the horses good health before and after the seizure it is very unlikely that an electrolyte abnormality or systemic disease problem will be found Robert but a thorough exam and lab work up is the beginning of trying to figure this out.
DrO
Member:
Dishpan

Posted on Monday, Sep 27, 2004 - 7:56 pm:

I have recently become aware of a condition primarily among thoroughbreds in which the vagas (sp?) nerve can be impinged while cinching the girth, thereby bringing on a seizure. I have even found a horse in which the condition is so severe that a seizure can be brought on almost every time by cinching too tight too quickly. We have begun to take extreme care to cinch very gradually, and the horse seems to be much more comfortable. No trace of a recurrence yet either. Does anyone out there know anything about this? I don't want to grasp at straws, but the only seizure activity was exactly when Hero's girth was cinched, and he is always antsy when he sees the saddle. The new technique visibly relaxed him, and the riding was great. Any responses are most greatly appreciated.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 - 4:39 pm:

While this condition of falling while cinching is pretty common and yes a form of seizure: narcolepsy is suspected, this has nothing to do with the vagus nerve which runs deep in the neck and thorax of the horse: the cinch does not put pressure on it in any way. Narcolepsy is a form of epilepsy, where the actual physiological event that brings on the hyperactivity of the brain is unknown.
DrO
New Member:
Larissap

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 1, 2005 - 12:08 pm:

My 12 yr. old TB gelding(off track racehorse but only for the last 2 years so he's had a saddle or two on him in his lifetime) has done this twice in the past few weeks. Both times it was a warm pleasant afternoon and I'd groomed him for 2 hours which he loves. He was completely relaxed, big head parallel with his shoulder, ears laid back and eyes half closed. Both times we were completely alone(the only times in the year i've owned him that there's been nobody else in the barn) with no barn scurry which I now believe was part of the catalyst. I think i put him into a trance and the saddle going on even though I only cinch the girth to the first notch and tighten after we've worked on the ground gradually as he's always bloated as hard as he can when being saddled.Typically there are people around, tractors buzzing by and all in all a very busy environment. Both time I'd put the saddle on, which he always eyes warily and he collapsed straight down to the ground with his hind legs first and the front ones alnost straight out in front following suit(Which considering he's 17 hands and about 1400 lbs. is no small event to witness. it took him 6 or 7 tries, both times to get to his feet. In between attempts he would lay on his side with his legs extended rigidly out, puffing and obviously in distress, big eye gazing at me pathetically asking for help. What should I do for him if he has another episode. I've slipped his head free of the halter both times and he still can't get up. I intend to saddle him on dirt from now on as my farrier explained to me that his shoes on cement are like ice skates. What else can you suggest to prevent this? He's really a sweet compliant eager to please gorgeous animal and i don't want him to hurt himself. This past time (the first was 2 weeks prior)he cut underneath his front leg where it meets the chest and it's really deep.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jun 2, 2005 - 8:35 am:

This is actually pretty common with horses Larissa, there are a lot of such reports on our boards and I have seen several of these in my own practice. I believe this to be a form of narcolepsy. You have the answer to your question in the post: when you set up the circumstances of the event, for more see Equine Diseases » Nervous System » Seizures & Fainting » Narcolepsy, Cataplexy, and Fainting.
DrO
New Member:
gregory

Posted on Thursday, Oct 29, 2009 - 10:07 pm:

dr o ,i had a blood test done on my horse a 7 yr old gelding it came back with low electrolites eg low sodium, would this possibly cause a horse to have a fit eg shortness of breath,eyes rolling back in head ,kicking while on ground reminded me of what we get in west aust called ryegrass tox.but the horse has not had any rye .this has happened twice or three times over a period of12 hrs ,horse seems fine eating and drinking though a little shaky .so far we have given 10 ml fynedyne 10 ml dexapent 10ml just wondering on your thoughts feel a little stumped. regards greg wa
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Oct 30, 2009 - 7:14 am:

Hello Greg,
The episodic occurrence of what might be neurological episodes causing uncoordinated movement does have similarities to grass staggers. And there are other causes of grass staggers than perennial ryegrass, for more on this see Diseases of Horses » Nervous System » Incoordination, Weakness, Spasticity, Tremors » Grass Staggers: Perennial Ryegrass and Dallis Grass (Paspalum) Poisoning.

Yes electrolyte imbalances can cause muscular and neurological symptoms but low serum sodium (hyponatremia) would be a rare cause. Usually such problems are with potassium or calcium levels. Mild abnormalities in sodium in healthy horses are not that uncommon either. Do you have a remarkable hyponatremia? Is there some reason to suspect your horse has consumed very large amounts of water or may have problems with the adrenal glands. Or is some other condition effecting water sodium balance that you are aware of?

The problem I am having is that what you describe could be behavioral (resistance), a reaction to pain almost anywhere in the body, or uncontrolled muscular activity either primary or neurological. This is too wide a problem list to try to evaluate for cause and someone needs to evaluate the horse while displaying these symptoms and attempt to tag a cause to them
DrO
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