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Dorjean
Member
Username: dorjean
Post Number: 4
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 31, 2007 - 11:39 am: |   |
Interested in knowing what experiences horse owners have had with their horse after being told their horse had a "propensity" for Cushing's Disease because of her stocky neck, etc. I've only had her a week and she's perfect for me and want to know what to expect. Awaiting info from my vet as to what to expect (not taking tests etc, but stable owner told me to check with him) but am curious as to others experience. I just want to keep her and "hope" but should I steer clear of anything, take cautions anyway? Anybody else been in this situation? THANKS. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 1466
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 31, 2007 - 9:43 pm: | |
Hi Dorjean, If you mean cresty neck I don't think that means they are more prone to cushings. Usually it means they are over weight or have been in their past.
Horses with "cresty" necks are usually considered more the metabolic type and you want to watch the sugars in their diet and keep their weight normal and exercise them as much as possible.
Dr.O. has an article in here on insulin resistance
http://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/4/18295.html
That may help ans. your questions. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 19454
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 1, 2007 - 6:40 am: | |
DianeE has it right: a cresty neck is indicative of obesity which is often associated with Equine Metabolic Disorder. The confusion with Equine Cushings is that both diseases have hyperglycemia, hyperinsulenemia, and lamanitis in common but there are many important differences. I have not seen where those with EMD have a propensity to go on to develop EC. Then again I have not seen where this is not true and there may be a bit of logic behind it since almost all horses eventually develop EC and the two diseases share some common mechanisms.
DrO |
Dorjean
Member
Username: dorjean
Post Number: 5
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 1, 2007 - 5:34 pm: | |
Thank you both so much for your responses. Have been at stable so wasn't able to get on line until now. My stable owner is the one who thought my horse was a candidate for EC because her coat is long and wavy and the crest of her neck is fat and bumpy. I looked up the explanation of EC but now must look up EMD. Thing that concerns me (and vet has yet to call or see my new horse so I am going blindly here) is that one, EC, means to not feed much protien but to feed beat pulp (which my barn does feed) but that's full of sugar and EMD supposedly means cut down on sugar. My gal is chunky and looks and acts healthy and haven't yet paid in full for her but is only way to be sure to spend money for a vet and blood tests? Wondering whether I should just let the cards fall as they will - pay for her (on a one-month lease and had her less than week but she's perfect for me - my 3rd horse in 28 years!) and just see what happens rather than worry in advance? Or SHOULD I see what's what so I can prevent or delay any problems with her? |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 1468
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 1, 2007 - 6:19 pm: | |
Hi Dorjean, how old is your mare? I have a 20 yr. old gelding that I believe is cushings and ir. He has a long wavy coat, that I have to shave in the summer.
Other than that if I watch his diet closely he does very well...he did have a couple bouts of laminitis until I figured it all out.
Whether your horse is cushings or Ir the best thing to do is cut down the carbs. If she is fat she doesn't need beet pulp or grain. I give mine a few soaked alfalfa cubes for their "grain" they love it and it has a good amount of protein and no bad carbs.
If your horse is chunky the best thing you can do for her is to get the weight off, especially if she is metabolic. Congratulations on your new horse! Can you post a pic of her? |
jojo
Member
Username: jojo15
Post Number: 991
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 1, 2007 - 9:58 pm: | |
whatever it is the cresty neck was my first sign i had to do something for my girl.. and i did.
I tested her a few years ago for cushings... ACTH came back high. Then another test came back normal. i just stopped bothering with all that testing. and just changed her diet. drastically.
but it was probably more of insulin resistance than anything. since the obesity starting.
It took a year or so. And pulling her off all grains. managing the hay better. and just being overtly diligent on her feet. Even going so far as learning to trim myself... I don't ride her hard any longer though, and i don't think she even needs beet pulp. She gets nothing but hay, periodically beet pulp and some BOSS, minerals free choice. that's it.=
I haven't looked at her lately and worrried about or seeing any cresty neck, now that i think about it...
Now The cresty neck is gone. Her feet are great. etc... Only thing now i really worry about is people who just don't listen and wanna give her carrots and stuff... who all say it just ain't right not to give a horse a carrot... but really NO more sugars.
you can always rinse the beet pulp with the molasses. Till it runs clean. I've also heard the amount in it is not nearly enough to cause problems. and you can also buy it without molasses in it. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 19467
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 2, 2007 - 6:54 am: | |
Dorjean, the advice above is good but let me correct a few misconceptions in your last post: Cushing horses should not be on a restricted protein diet, just the opposite in fact. They may require a higher protein intake to offset the metabolic and digestive inefficiencies that come with age and Cushings. Beet pulp does not contain large amounts of simple sugars. In fact it is a high fiber foodstuff with both digestible and indigestible carbohydrates. This makes it closer to good grass (without the fructans) than grain.
Concerning managing this horses condition I recommend you check out Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Horse Feeds, Feeding » Equine Nutrition an Overview of Feeding Horses It should get you started in the right direction.
DrO |
Dorjean
Member
Username: dorjean
Post Number: 6
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 16, 2007 - 11:28 am: | |
Thank you so much for your help and advice. I was waiting to see my vet before getting back for another posting and he finally saw her on Tuesday and said she's a "classic Cushings horse" but, like me, felt that if she was the perfect horse for me (and felt that 1 week into her 1-month lease) I shouldnt worry about it and he didn't want to spend my money on blood tests. Gave me Pergolide Mesylate apple and told me to give her .05 per day and that way I won't have to worry about her getting founder or laminitus (which he said I didn't want to see in her) and could just enjoy her. Well, easier said than done. Apparantly she'd never been vetted before (her barn said they'd never wormed her or given her shots) and my poor little docile girl didn't like the needle he gave her before floating her teeth but luckily the only bad she does is back up and try to get her head out of the way. So that done with her backing up while her teeth were floated he gave her half the worming (she's about 750 lbs he thinks) and told me to give her the other half and the pergolide. Well she ran into her stall that afternoon and the next day didn't want to come out and when I showed her the little syringe couldn't get her head down - with help - so finally put into her mouth and forget the other half of worming - had to put it on my fingers and on a carrot because she wouldn't lower her head. Still worried yesterday but finally came to me and gave her it inside a piece of apple which I'm doing for a while. She is such a good horse that I'm willing to take a risk and keep her because I know she'll be best with someone who'll take good care of her. My first horse had been nerved before I bought him and then had a dislocated stiffle that healed wrong and vet thought I should probably put him down but I had him for 21 years when I was hoping for one good year and he'd challenge a 4 year old though was 39 when his back gave out and he pulled himself out of his stall on his front legs and kept trying to get up for me. Cried putting him down. Second one had been a cow pony and bucked and reared and spun but let him do that in the ring without me on his back so he'd be calmer outside. He wound up with sidebone and stringhault and I kept him on isoxiprine and had him 7 years until he died in September with a heart attack after loud explosive noises of house trailers being dumped in front of the barn in the middle of the night rather than in the back of the city yard where they were supposed to go. So have had my fill and love of horses with problems that flourished, so I knew, when I had this one brought to me and found she had the "propensity for Cushings Disease" that I was going to keep her and see it through. Hopefully the meds will keep her from experiencing anything, and she'll get used to regular vet treatments. Would post a pic but my scanner doesn't work and can't find my usb hookup for my digital camera. So thank you so much. & Dr. Oglesby, I'm reading your articles in small doses because I'm afraid I'll scare myself. Barn I got her from thought she was 13-15 but vet and stable owner said she's "up there", 19-20, but attitude before age, and she's a winner for me. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 1504
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 16, 2007 - 4:11 pm: | |
Dorjean that's great, Only one thing I would be careful about....pergolide doesn't keep them completely safe from founder, be sure to watch her diet also. I'm glad she found you. You sound like a very caring owner. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 19584
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 - 7:00 am: | |
Dorjean no need to be afraid of our article on Cushing's. It gives you a good prognosis for long term continued good health of your horse if you follow our management and treatment recommendations.
DrO |
Dorjean
Member
Username: dorjean
Post Number: 7
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 - 11:26 am: | |
Thanks for the nice words Diane. She's good for me, too! Dr O, I think the reason I'm a bit scared is that I was all set to make sure she's taken proper care of, fed well, wormed properly, feet done (we're on a 5 week regimen at my barn), and then I read about Pergolide being only as a last resort and my vet gave it to me to give her .05 EVERY DAY} to prevent anything from happening even though we're not taking her blood and it may NOT be a last resort, and I'm concerned that what if I can't get to the barn and give it to her EVERY DAY and will doing it for the rest of her life as he recommended have any ill effects? Think I was happier just taking care of her and hoping I wouldn't have to give her meds since I thought they would come only with bad signs. Forgive me for over emotionalizing here. Also don't know if putting the meds in a carrot or apple daily will hurt her (my not used to vets horse may eventually let me use the syringe or maybe I can put it in her beet pulp at night) and I'll hopefully be better able to worm her in two months, but dumb of me I worry about what if I DON'T do all the right things?? So reading what can happen does scare me a bit.} |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 1506
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 - 3:24 pm: | |
Dorjean they have wormer you can add right to their feed or beet pulp..Iverease is an ivermectin based one, there are others too.
Don't fret too much about doing the right things, with horses it's sometimes just a crap shoot. Educating yourself is the best thing you can do for her. You have a world of knowledge right here at HA.
Read thru Dr.O.'s articles they are a great help for just about anything |
