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Jim and Robin
Member
Username: Jimc

Post Number: 19
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 9, 2005 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

What advice do you have about red ring?
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 12031
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 - 8:38 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Jim and Robin,
Could you explain a bit more about what you are seeing? Is this on the wall or on the sole?
DrO
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Jim and Robin
Member
Username: Jimc

Post Number: 20
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Dr. O,
My farrier told me that the horse has red ring or red line. You can wipe a red powder off the bottom of the hoof. I understand the cause of the problem is too much protien and that the horse should only feed on grass. Does this description help?
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 12043
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Friday, Feb 11, 2005 - 8:06 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Not really Jim, I do nt know of any such disease and feeding high amounts of protein does not cause such problems. Could you take a picture and post it. Also photo the red powder on a white cloth.
DrO
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Denise Bryant
Member
Username: Contilli

Post Number: 28
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Friday, Feb 11, 2005 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dr O, Isn't this 'ring' bruising in the hoof? Or, a farrier 'bled' the horse? Some of my horses have had that ring but it was caused by hard ground, gravel or some type of contusion to the feet. It is in or near the white line area.

Powder? I' like to see that for myself.

Jim - Is your farrier a Journeyman Farrier or certified with AFA? Is this horse a 'pasture' horse or your mount? And, what type of ground is he/she worked/living on?

Denise
www.BryantFarm.com
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Jim and Robin
Member
Username: Jimc

Post Number: 21
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, Feb 11, 2005 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The farrier recently trimmed the horses hooves to correct poor angeling.I was not there at the time of the trimming, so I don't have details about the red ring, but I understood the farrier was able to wipe a red powder from the hoof.
The horse was recently purchased from a woman who brings in horses from a ranch and sells them. The horse was a working ranch horse and she intended to use him for roping cows. The woman decided to keep another horse and to sell this horse. He was kept in a dirt area at her home and he was ridden on a dirt and rocky trail. He had shoes at the time of riding the trail, and now the shoes are off. We are keeping the horse in a dirt arena without shoes at this time.
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Jim and Robin
Member
Username: Jimc

Post Number: 22
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, Feb 11, 2005 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dr. O,
The horse is not with me right now so I can't send you a picture until next week. In what instances would you protien restrict a horse?
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Denise Bryant
Member
Username: Contilli

Post Number: 29
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Friday, Feb 11, 2005 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Jim-

Sounds like bruising, shoes or not. As Dr.O said, there is no disease like this. Wiping off with a cloth? Maybe blood? Have you heard of 'bleeding a horse'?

Is your farrier certified? You can check the site for his name if you are not sure. http://www.americanfarriers.org/

Denise
www.BryantFarm.com
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Jim and Robin
Member
Username: Jimc

Post Number: 23
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, Feb 11, 2005 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Denise,
What is bleeding a horse?
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Kristin L. Hanson
Member
Username: Klhanson

Post Number: 5
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Friday, Feb 11, 2005 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Okay, there was a discussion about this in December 2003, where the farrier saw a red line inside the hoof wall in the area of the white line, and told the owner that it was a form of laminitis. There was no conclusion to the discussion, but apparently in the same type of situation, the farrier was removing shoes, saw this red line, and stated that it had something to do with feed, alfalfa hay, or something of that nature.
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Shirley A. Johnson
Member
Username: Shirl

Post Number: 175
Registered: 2-2002
Posted on Friday, Feb 11, 2005 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Jim and Robin,
I'm no expert here, but 'been there, done that' with every other hoof problem there is. I'd have some blood work done, ACTH,Insulin and Glucose to see if there is a problem with metabolism somewhere. Having hay analysed would tell you if he's getting too much of any mineral, but I've never heard of anything related to that causing this 'red ring'. Good luck and best to you both. Shirl
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Julie Masner
Member
Username: Juliem

Post Number: 76
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Friday, Feb 11, 2005 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Your farrier is likely seeing the result of a past laminitis episode. The torn laminae leave traces of blood in the white line area that are revealed after several weeks when that area of the hoof is exposed through trimming. It could also be the result of bruising. These both show up on white feet as bright pink or red. I suppose if he rasped the sole the results could resemble red powder. Sometimes a laminitis episode will leave a "red ring" (semi circle) in the toe area of the sole under the tip of the coffin bone, almost an outline of the tip of the coffin bone. You could have missed an episode that only lasted a few days and didn't cause dramatic lameness unless you're quite attentive and diligent in paying attention to the way your horse moves (something your become when you have to deal with laminitis!)
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Redmare
Member
Username: Redmare

Post Number: 68
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, Feb 12, 2005 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Jim & Robin-

Im my experience a redness in the white line area at the toe indicates leverage pressure. It's common in horses who are newly deshod because the hoof wall is still thin and weak and it separates from the sole on hard ground. I see it most often in Thoroughbreds, especially if their heels are too high. If you are keeping your horse barefoot make sure you get a trimmer who does just that -- shoers do things very differently. If your horse is tender there are a variety of hoof boots on the market.

As for the red powder, that's a mystery!
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 12052
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Saturday, Feb 12, 2005 - 8:33 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Jim, without a better description I am hesitant to say anything about this and I am not sure how listing a bunch of unrelated conditions where you might want to restrict protein help. What we need is a accurate description of the problem. Is your horse lame? Is he acting sick or had a history or recent illness?
DrO
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Denise Bryant
Member
Username: Contilli

Post Number: 30
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Saturday, Feb 12, 2005 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Jim and Robin-

My farrier, a Certified Journeyman Farrier through AFA has mentioned it before. He says even the best "bleed' a horse. I think it is when they nip too closely/deep into the wall/white line area or scrape the sole with knife too deeply. I'm not sure exactly but when he comes again I will ask him specifics. My horses, do at times get the red ring if-you-will from time to time. I had a two year old in training for Dressage at Devon and he came home with bruising. It is harder to see on dark hooved equines but it is there and only noticeable through the bottom of the foot. My gelding was worked in hand only and came home with a lot of stone bruises. He has four socks and all feet are white. You could see the bruising in the outside hoof wall. As it grows out/down it is trimmed off during regular trimmings. This is the only way for the blood to exit the hoof. Just as if you smashed your fingernail with a hammer it does not dissipate it grows out. You may see that red ring in his feet for months. It takes (I believe) almost a year to grow a complete hoof.

I don't believe it takes much impact to cause this ring/bruising and it does not cause them to be lame unless of course they are stone bruised and/or abscessing.

Good luck.
Denise
www.BryantFarm.com
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Denise Bryant
Member
Username: Contilli

Post Number: 34
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Sunday, Feb 13, 2005 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Just got a call from my farrier, Joe Grimes. He explained ‘bleeding a horse’ as either nipping the white line area too deeply, nipping or cutting the frog area too deeply, driving a nail in the wrong place or cutting to sole too thin. He said you can make them bleed anywhere in the hoof. He also said that any stress to the hoof can cause the white line to bruise. If a farrier leaves to toe too long (with or without shoes) it is like bending your fingernail back. This stresses certain areas in the hoof therefore bruising will occur. This is just one example of bruising.

As for red powder – he has never heard of it.

Take care,
Denise
www.BryantFarm.com
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