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Discussion on Noisy sheath

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Gill Bridgeman
Member
Username: Gillb

Post Number: 73
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2005 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have recently acquired a young Morgan gelding (rising 2) and have noticed whenever he moves faster than a walk his sheath is very noisy. What exactly is the cause of a noisy sheath and will he be likely to have this permanently?
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Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood

Post Number: 562
Registered: 3-2001
Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2005 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have a Morab gelding with a similar problem, Gill, although it isn't unBEARably noisy . . . maybe the two horses are related!?!

What is your horse's pedigree?
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Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos

Post Number: 623
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2005 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi, Gill,
It is the penis moving into the sheath that creates the squink. Probably some air that's trapped and released with the movement.
Geldings are not supposed to squink that loud, as the sheath tightens up a bit with gelding and the testicles are not there to add weight and movement.
I think their sheath gets quieter as they mature (or is it that one gets used to the noise?) though I've known one that got noisy at 3yo (all stallions, if that makes a difference).
It may be possible to surgically remove a strip of the sheath if it is too loud for you. DrO?
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Fran Cilella
Member
Username: Canter

Post Number: 187
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2005 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Gill, I can't give you a technical answer, but when I started riding several years ago, ALL the geldings (school horses) made the same noise and most of those horses were well into their teens. It was quite startling to a complete newcomer to horses. Now that I think about it, those school horses were mostly Morgans, too. When I later purchased a TB gelding (7 yo at the time of purchase) he made the same noise but it was a lot less loud than the Morgans.

Fran
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Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler

Post Number: 82
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2005 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hmmm.... I've never noticed a noise from my geldings . I'll have to check next time. I know mare's that have been stitched up to prohibit breeding make noise.
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Sharlene Roberts-Caudle
Member
Username: Roberts

Post Number: 12
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2005 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I was once told that it indicated that the sheath needed cleaning, but I don't know. I had 5 year old Appaloosa gelding in high school who never made the noise (and never had his sheath cleaned), and my Arabs sometimes do, and sometimes don't.
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Little King Ranch
Member
Username: Eoeo

Post Number: 133
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2005 - 7:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Cheryl H. I believe you have misunderstood why fillies/mares are stitched up. It isn't to prohibit breeding because if a stallion were to get to them, stitching them up wouldn't keep him from breeding them. The procedure is called a caslick and it is to keep them from getting contamination if they have poor conformation back there and to keep fillies/mares which are racing from sucking air in there while they are running which can be painful.
As for geldings making noise, I don't believe it has anything to do with having a dirty sheath. I can't remember what it is caused from, it always sounded like they had water in their stomach sloshing around to me. What is the cause of the noise, Dr. O? EO
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Liliana Velasco Ariza
Member
Username: Liliana

Post Number: 208
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2005 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Gill please forgive me for asking a question on your thread but this is a question that has always bugged me.
Dr. O is there any truth in the caslick procedure? horses run from danger, and I have not seen a sewing box anywhere near a wild herd
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Nadia F
Member
Username: Nadia

Post Number: 43
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2005 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I read somewhere that this noise happens when the horse is stressed. My horse does it sometimes. I've noticed it lately when I am lunging him and have asked for the trot. After a few minutes, he stops making the noise. (I'll see if I can find the web site again. Granted, maybe you can't believe everything you read!) Since it only happens sometimes, I would think that explanation makes sense for my horse. I would think a physical problem could be causing it in other horses.
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Helen Weedon
Member
Username: Cara2

Post Number: 111
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 - 5:29 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I read that it occurs in geldings not stallions because the gelding process causes reduced growth of the genitals so there is more spare space in the sheath. In other words it is just air sloshing about inside. I've only ever heard it in trot and I don't know why this should be. Certainly it is often heard in horses that are a bit excited. Perhaps they tense their muscles and this allows even more air in. Well, we all know how much boys like making silly noises, don't we ladies? :-)
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 12147
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 - 8:28 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

You can hear the squonk in both geldings and stallions and yes some horses only develop it when the sheath is dirty so cleaning helps some but not all. I have never been able to figure out what the exact set of circumstances are that set it up.

Following the advice of a very experienced older practitioneer about 15 years ago I started doing castrations in a modified way that allowed me to remove a bit more of the bottom of the scrotum and the median raphae that separates the 2 testicles. Since that time I can't think of any of my geldings that squonk. I think it gives credence to the "loose tissues" idea.

Concerning the Caslicks the idea is to prevent sucking air into the vagina and uterus where it is irritating to the endometrium. It is said some mares develop a chronic endometritis because of this. I suspect the trainers think it makes them go faster by making them more aerodynamic
.
DrO
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Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler

Post Number: 87
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 22, 2005 - 1:13 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

LKR sorry i know its not the place but this mare was stitched so she cannot be bred a pregnancy will kill her.
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Elizabeth Donahue
Member
Username: Paul303

Post Number: 468
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 23, 2005 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh my gosh! All these years I've been thinking it was a large drink of water sloshing around in their stomachs!! How pathetic is that?

As for the Caslick, I leased a King Ranch mare 25 yrs ago, to breed to a Wimpy Dude stud. The mare was "broad beamed", and built like a prizefighter. She slipped the foal early on, and after we re-bred and confirmed she was in foal, the vet felt the Caslick might help since her anatomy back there was so conducive to contamination of the birth canal. The stiching was removed when her due date was near. It worked well, I guess, because 25 years later, I still have my little filly.
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Gill Bridgeman
Member
Username: Gillb

Post Number: 74
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 23, 2005 - 4:26 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Interesting points here folks, thanks. Just have to hope my gelding grows out of it then, but may not!! I did have a feeling it was to do with air being trapped in there. I've had other geldings and never noticed this, except for one who did it very occasionally and yes, he was a Morgan!

Holly my gelding is UK bred horse but he is out of two Taproot horses. He's probably taller and finer than the 'traditional' types but I am hoping he will fill out.

Wonder if you slathered the sheath with vaseline it would still make the noise
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Christine C. Mills in NC
Member
Username: Chrism

Post Number: 1066
Registered: 4-1999
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 23, 2005 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

If you slathered it with anything, I'd use mineral oil, although I am not sure if that would be helpful. Make sure your slather stuff is warmish.

I've always called it the "gelding grunt."

As far as caslick's, I seem to remember them being used in pregnant mares with a tilted opening to help keep manure and pee from falling over/in the opening and causing contamination.
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Erin L Chien
Member
Username: Erinport

Post Number: 25
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 23, 2005 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh my gosh! I'm so glad I stumbled across this thread! We recently bought two geldings, one of which makes this horrible "grunting" noise while gaiting (they're a TWH and SSH). My mom and I just laughed and laughed. We thought there was something wrong with his nose. Here it's his penis! Tells you how experienced we are! I almost can't stand to listen to it, it's so loud and constant. He's for sale. Good thing, huh? My other guy has never done it, but his conformation is quite a bit different. And the one that squonks (?) is very high strung. The quiet one is very laid back. How interesting. I guess I should tell my mom it's not his nose, afterall!
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Nadia F
Member
Username: Nadia

Post Number: 44
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 23, 2005 - 6:11 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Here's the website that has an explanation:

http://www.horse-sense.org/archives/sheanois.htm

Seems to make sense to me in my horses's case. He does it rarely and usually stops after a few minutes of trotting.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 12161
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 - 7:58 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Concerning the Caslicks the procedure is used on some horses with chronic reproductive problems but it is also routine for young fillies on the track for some trainers. Erin, there are some horses that have upper air way issues that cause a persistant sound when riding, some of which sound like a grunt.

For those who try the mineral oil, a safe procedure, let us know if this decreases the noise. You will have to get the oil "way" up there and may take something like a turkey baster carefully inserted its full length. Unless you have cleaned your horses sheath all the way to the back, you will be amazed how far back it goes. I would estimate (looking at my arm and thinking how far back I go when I clean) in some full size horses 14 to 16 inches, to reach the fornix, is not unusual.
DrO
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Gill Bridgeman
Member
Username: Gillb

Post Number: 75
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 - 8:16 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Wow Dr O, that is a long way! I never cleaned any of my geldings sheaths, the only one I had to handle a lot in that area was my horse Pip who had cancer there.

When you say mineral oil, where would you get this from and what is it normally used for? We have a product over here called Pig Oil, it is a very light oil that is used by a lot of folk to protect the hair of feathered horses such as Shires, Gypsy Cobs and some of the native ponies. I am wondering if this is a similar oil (it is technically used to condition the skin of pigs). As I have some it would be useful if it was the same thing.

Another question, would the oil not make it easier for dirt and debris to stick to the penis?
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Fran Cilella
Member
Username: Canter

Post Number: 189
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Gill,
Any drugstore will carry mineral oil--it's frequently used as a laxative (yuck!) I have no idea if it's the same thing as pig oil--never heard of that.
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Elizabeth Donahue
Member
Username: Paul303

Post Number: 470
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 1, 2005 - 3:11 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Um.....Actually, Gill, Whenever I've had geldings, I'd regularly squirt a good shot of mineral oil, or baby oil up the sheath - at least once a week in summer, during the grooming process. It just about cut out the scurff formation, made cleaning day a breeze, and had no beans. So, for me, it kept my geldings cleaner, not dirtier. But as for the vaseline bit......um...what did you say your hobbies were?
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Gill Bridgeman
Member
Username: Gillb

Post Number: 76
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 1, 2005 - 4:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Now that would be telling Elizabeth

I'll give you a clue, it involves a turkey baster and some mineral oil!!!
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Hilma Beuchert
New Member
Username: Dakotab

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2005 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Noisey Sheath
I have a 15 year old Tn.walking horse gelding.
His sheath makes noise when we go any faster than a walk. The Vet says he has a laxed sheath(very loose). My other two geldings which are tight do not do it.
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Caroline Azelski
Member
Username: Cazelski

Post Number: 3
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2005 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Elizabeth D: Is 'scurff' that papery stuff? Since we moved to Hawaii from the Boston area my Arabian gelding has been getting a lot more of that. I peel it off a few times a month when he is extended much to his great annoyance. Back East a once per year sheath cleaning by the vet was sufficient. Here it is dustier and windier so cleaning with sheath cleaner once per quarter is needed in addition to the once yearly by the vet.

Can you comment on the method you use for getting the mineral oil into the sheath? Do you use a turkey baster as some others have mentioned? Approximately what volume of oil? Sincere apologies for so many questions.

I have gleaned that my gelding honks occasionally also. (How embarrassing... thinking back to when I thought it was something else and others around me probably knew what it was!) I blamed it on a Wintec saddle that I had been using, as in I thought it was the saddle itself. The saddle fitter told me that this Wintec would cause my gelding to go hollow. He also tends to be a bit hollow while longeing (so he can look around) and I have heard honking then. A possible tie in here and definite motivation to strive for better collection. Aloha.
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Penner
Member
Username: Penner

Post Number: 190
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 9, 2005 - 11:22 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi All, Mostly only the old timers would know me as I've been a lurker for a yr. But I couldn't resist this post...

Thought you with equines of the male persuasion might appreciate this, and you you mare owners...be grateful!

Sing it to the tune of "Hello Mother, Hello Father" from camp song


How's it hangin'?
So much cleaner.
Aren't you glad I
washed your wiener?
I'll admit it's
kinda creepy
that I had to stick my arm up in your pee-pee.

It was sticky.
It was gunky.
It felt icky.
It smelled funky.
It was cruddy,
it was crusty--
when you stuck it out, it creaked like it was rusty.

After half an
hour of toilin'
and of squirtin'
baby oil in,
you're as fresh there
as a daisy.
Either this means I love you or else I'm crazy!!!

:-p
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Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood

Post Number: 576
Registered: 3-2001
Posted on Thursday, Mar 10, 2005 - 1:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh, PENNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for coming out of hiding . . . LOL! Come out more often . . . PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 12259
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Mar 10, 2005 - 8:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Welcome back penner, loved the poem!
DrO
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Fran Cilella
Member
Username: Canter

Post Number: 196
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Thursday, Mar 10, 2005 - 8:18 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Penner, absolutely hilarious! Thanks for the huge grin!
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 455
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Thursday, Mar 10, 2005 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

That was the funniest thing I've read in a long time. Thanks for sharing. I think I'll encorporate it into a campfire singalong at an upcoming trail ride!!!!
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Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler

Post Number: 122
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Thursday, Mar 10, 2005 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

hehehehe
My boss probably thinks I'm nutz I laughed for about 10 minutes.
Thanks that was great.
I think I shall post it on the board at my barn.
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Elizabeth Donahue
Member
Username: Paul303

Post Number: 471
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 15, 2005 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

LOVED IT PENNER!!!

Caroline: Sorry to take so long getting back to you. We're barn building and fencing - that always comes first ( way before housecleaning ). All I ever had to do, was squeeze ( hard ) a bottle of baby oil or mineral oil that I stocked in each gelding's cleaning tote. I'd have the vet clean them at their spring vetting and follow it up with a good heavy squeeze during grooming once or twice a week. They stayed clean - but a word of caution here: in winter, keep the oil in a warm place....or you'll end up with a rather surprized and unhappy boy!
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