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Discussion on Ravenous Appetite/ Wasted Back/ Pot Belly/ Eating Salt | |
Author | Message |
New Member: ramener |
Posted on Saturday, Dec 1, 2007 - 5:58 pm: I joined this forum today hoping that someone can help me with an illness my gelding has that the vet has been unable to diagnose so far. I have just joined and read the basics under the endocrine disorder section. If anyone here can help or point me to another article on this site that would help I would appreciate it more than you could imagine. It is awful to watch my horse wasting away and not know what is wrong.I have a 15 year old Belgian x TB. For years we have had to clip him regularly due to a thick slow to shed hair coat. We tested him for Cushings in the past and the tests were negative. At the time his only difficulty was his haircoat being think so we did not test further. About a month or so ago he began eating an excessive amount of salt. At the same time he began to have an extremely ravenous appetite. He behaves almost as if he is starving. He sometimes eats dirt or tries to eat things that are not edible. Wounds do not seem to heal quickly. His topline has wasted quite a bit in a short time and he has developed a "pot-bellied" appearance. These are the major symptoms we have seen with him. The vet has taken many tests and all of them are normal or borderline. I have a list of tests and will post the findings below. I have noted the tests that were out of normal range with an * and noted the normal range after. I am new to reading lab reports, so I hope this makes sense! 11/02/2007 Tests *Glucose 136 (75-115) Nitrogen 13 *Creatine .5 (.9-1.9) *Bun/Creatinine Ratio 26 (4-17) Sodium 139 Potassium 4.4 Chloride 101 *Cholesterol 130 (59-120) Triglicerides 36 Total Bilirubin .8 Aldaline Phosphatase 120 SGOT/AST 208 *SGPT/ ALT 23 (3-20) *LDH 409 (150-370) CK 310 Total Protein 5.7 Albumin 3.1 Globulin 2.6 A/G Ratio 1.2 Calcium 11.8 Inorganic Phosphorus 3.3 *Magnesium 2.5 (1.7-2.4) Lipase 46 WBC 6.9 RBC 7.52 Hemoglobin 13.9 MCV 57 MCH 18.5 MCHC 32.7 *Neutrophils 86 (22-72) *Lymphocytes 11 (17-88) Monocytes 2 Eosinophils 1 Basophils 1 Absolute Neutrophils 5.9 *Absolute Lymphocytes .8 (2.0-5.5) Absolute Monocytes .1 Absolute Eosinophils .1 Absolute Basophils .1 Calcium 11.8 Vet comments on lab work: Platelets clumped, but appear adequate 11/06/2007 Tests *Free T4 1.05 (1.2-1.8) 11/12/2007 Tests *Urinary Cortisol/Creatinine Ratio 11.5 (vet noted that greater than 7.5 is abnormal) 11/28/2007 Tests Dexamethasone Suppression, 2 samples Time 1 2.7 taken 2:30pm 11/27 Time 2 1.4 taken 9am 11/28 (The reference range is noted as 3.1-6.5) He has had no changes in diet or management. I appreciate any feedback you can give. Thanks Brenda}}} |
New Member: ramener |
Posted on Saturday, Dec 1, 2007 - 6:04 pm: Oh, I forgot another important symptom. At the same time all the other symptoms (besides his persistent coat problems) started he began having difficulty breathing at canter with his head on the vertical. He was better with his nose in front but still labored in breathing. The vet said his Thyroid is enlarged.Thanks again, Brenda |
Member: scooter |
Posted on Saturday, Dec 1, 2007 - 6:14 pm: Hi Brenda and welcome to HA I have no idea what the blood tests mean. A few questions do come to mind tho what is he fed daily, is he on a good de-worming schedule and have his teeth been checked? If all of this is adequate then I would suspect cushings.I have read that cushings test are not all that accurate. I have a gelding that I believe is cushings, he has never been tested. My vet thinks at this point with correct diet it is controllable and it has been so far...just needs clipping in the summer. Sometimes people try the pergolide to see if it helps. Of course your blood test may point to something else altogether and Dr.O. will be able to help you out there. Good luck |
Member: mrose |
Posted on Saturday, Dec 1, 2007 - 6:39 pm: Hi Brenda. I have read on this site that tests for Cushings are not only unreliable, they are the most unreliable in the fall and winter. Like Diane, however, I would also suspect Cushings. Were you able to find the articles on Cushings and metabolic disorder and did any of it "hit home?" The fact that your gelding has such a heavy hair coat that you have to clip him makes me wonder about the cushings; also the pot belly and hungry.Something that helped one of our horses that was what our vet called "pre-Cushings" was to feed her beet pulp and Equine Senior along with a good vitamin supplement and some rice bran. I think one of the articles talke about that. I feed her the same amount, in dry weight, of beet pulp and senior as I would feed of hay. I soak the beet pulp, add the senior and 1/2 cup of rice bran and mix it all up and give her half of it 2x/day. I also let her nibble on a little grass hay during the day. She is doing really good on this diet. She can't have alfalfa or any other grain other than the senior. I'm sure Dr.O will answer your post as soon as possible. I know it's frustrating and scarey when there is something wrong and you don't know what it is. |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Saturday, Dec 1, 2007 - 10:33 pm: Welcome Brenda,Your horse may well have Cushings but I am not sure it explains the remarkable weight loss. Did you get the urine's specific gravity when you were testing it? What is his water consumption and urine output like? We have a article on evaluating and managing weight loss in horses that gives a step wise procedure: Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Weight Loss in Horses » Overview of Chronic Weight Loss. If after carefully evaluating your management and common causes of weight loss you still don't have a diagnosis I would consider a belly tap and peritoneal fluid analysis as one of my first next steps. DrO |
Member: ekaufman |
Posted on Saturday, Dec 1, 2007 - 11:32 pm: Welcome Brenda,A boarder's 21 year-old mare presented similar symptoms with a negative Cushing's test this year. She lost weight, but it was mostly extraordinary muscle loss (she dumped her whole topline and you could count her vertebrae). After a thorough work-up that identified no specific illness, the vet recommended a trial 6 week run on pergolide. This does not diagnose your horse, but my boarder's mare has turned around dramatically-- she has gained approx. 200lbs and is back to her old self. So we have ended up with a presumptive Cushing's diagnosis in spite of the negative bloodwork. Good luck with your horse. I will say not to give up. I have been stunned by seeing my boarder's skeletal mare bounce back into a happy and opinionated life. |
New Member: ramener |
Posted on Sunday, Dec 2, 2007 - 10:32 am: Dr O, Elizabeth, Sara, and Diane:Thank you for your feedback. My vet does suspect it is Cushings but she is hesitant to start him on anything because the test results are inconclusive. To fill in some management info, we feed him Alam from McCauley's.(https://www.feedhorses.com/feeds/specialapplication/alam.cfm) It is high fat, low sugar and we started him on it years ago when we suspected that he may have had a bought with ulcers. We also supplement with Omega Bran (https://www.feedhorses.com/supplements/OmegaBran.cfm) and Biotin. He sees the Equine dentist 2 times per year and is on a quarterly worming program. I do not think he lost a dramatic amount of weight. I think he lost some weight, but his top line is what is shocking. He was really pretty muscular and it is the muscle he has lost. It seems like his muscle shifted to his "potbelly". Though the specific gravity of the urine is not on the test results, I will mention it to my vet (another Dr.O!) and yes, he has been drinking a ton of water! The biggest behavioral symptoms we see are: ravenous appetite, eating a lot of salt, excessive urination. This horse use to keep a tidy stall and would walk out to the paddock to urinate or manure. In fact, if you shut his door he would try to hold it until you let him out rather than mess up his stall. Now if there is any little crumb of hay in the stall he will not part from it for two seconds to go outside, he just goes in the stall while still eating. |
Member: erika |
Posted on Sunday, Dec 2, 2007 - 4:49 pm: Welcome Brenda, I won't begin to try to tell what's wrong, but the worming does stand out to me as a possible contributor.You don't say what you worm with, but quarterly may not be often enough whatever you use. Check the article on worming here for more info. Best of luck. Hope you find the solution! Erika |
Member: scooter |
Posted on Sunday, Dec 2, 2007 - 6:20 pm: Agree with Erika it might be worth doing a fecal. My horses looked nqr one summer and shed slower than usual. I worm mine every 6 weeks. Decided to run a fecal and much to my surprise they were loaded with stongylydes (sp) I wormed them with Ivermectin and put them on daily strongid for a year along with quarterly Ivermectin......took care of the problem. |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Sunday, Dec 2, 2007 - 6:37 pm: Though the age young for such remarkable symptoms the hair coat and drinking/urination symptoms are certainly supportive of Cushings and if nothing else found and management as detailed in the article referenced above not effective certainly a course of pergolide runs very little risk of complications. However there are still some diseases to consider so beside those in the weight loss article you should also review some of the possibilities in the article Diseases of Horses » Urinary System » Excessive Drinking and Urination, Polydipsia / Polyuria (PD/PU). In the article you will read about diabetes insipidus and medullary wash out. Either may lead to excessive salt consumption, PU/PD, and weight loss and is consistent with the rest of your post.DrO |