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kbrooks
Member
Username: kamibroo
Post Number: 37
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 - 12:37 am: |   |
I'm dealing with an orphaned foal and feeding milk replacer. She has diarrhea and the vet provided electrolyte packages for calves (Entrolyte HE - Pfizer) that contains bicarbonate as an alkalinizing agent.
I'm reading that this interfers with milk digestion in calves and at one site, they recommended separating milk from electrolytes by as much as 4 hours. The filly is getting milk at least hourly, if not more often. I can't see getting enough milk replacer/calories into her if I were to hold her back to 4 hour feedings. The site that provided that information was not what I'd call authoritative, so my questions are:
Is there any research about this interference in horses as well? I'm assuming that it does.
What is the recommended time between milk and electrolytes w/bicarbonate in them?
How useful is Pedialyte (if at all)? I don't think I'm seeing an alkalanizer in it (Water, dextrose; less than 2% of: Potassium Citrate, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Citrate and Citric Acid... 1 ltr provides Sodium 45mEq; Potassium 20mEq; Chloride 35 mEq; Dextrose 25gm; Callories 100 )
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Kami |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 19955
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 - 11:38 am: | |
I cannot find any work to suggest this is a problem in any livestock with alkalized oral electrolyte supplements. If your source has references to indicate otherwise I would be interested in them. There has been work that found high calcium concentrations resulted in lower digestibility but despite this did not effect weight gain in livestock. I cannot find any similar work in foals.
In general balanced electrolyte solutions are going to be ph adjusted to equal the ph of the blood and I would not think they would be a problem. Some oral electrolyte solutions do include extra bicarbonate to help counteract the acidemia (low blood ph) that accompanies some illnesses. Foal diarrhea may have acidemia and can be clinically guessed at by the higher respiratory rate that often accompanies it.
So whether alkalized solutions are indicated is a clinical and/or laboratory decision. I frequently use over the counter calf electrolytes and then dilute milk replacers for maintaining hydration in foals with serious diarrhea.
Notice the word "dilute". If you plan to feed them together you should not mix the electrolytes up with made up milk replacer which results is a very hypertonic solution. Mix them both according to directions, then mix them together following your veterinarian's directions for dosage. Unless your vet thinks the diarrhea is being caused by excessive consumption of milk solids you should insure that your foal's milk solids intake does not suffer by the use of oral electrolytes.
DrO |
kbrooks
Member
Username: kamibroo
Post Number: 38
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 - 6:43 pm: | |
Here are some of the credible links that I've found. Until my vet brought it up, I never thought that they interfere at all.
I finally found this study, but it is a 1990 study and seems odd that either more weren't done or that this is not a common belief for other species (lambs, pigs, horses, etc)?
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1480882&blobtype=pdf
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/beef/facts/06-083.htm
"Feed oral electrolyte solutions containing bicarbonate at least 4 hr after feeding milk as they can interfere with milk digestion"
http://animsci.agrenv.mcgill.ca/courses/450/topics/5.pdf
"Acidic electrolyte solution may be fed immediately after a meal of milk as they may help protein co-aggulation and digestion. However, alkaline electrolyte solutions are more effective when they are fed 3-4 hours after a meal, as they may interfere with milk-co-aggulation."
These are all for calves. I can't find anything for horses or any other species. |
kbrooks
Member
Username: kamibroo
Post Number: 39
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 - 6:57 pm: | |
the study above was partially funded by Langford Inc, then found the link below that seems to say Revibe (electrolyte used in study) is made by Langford, Inc
http://www.usask.ca/wcvm/herdmed/specialstock/elk/diseases/scours.html
That may explain at least in part of it? The link is about elk calves, but makes no mention of interference. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 19962
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 28, 2008 - 7:13 am: | |
The only research paper is the first one Kami. The last two papers are informed opinion publications though it is unclear that the recommendation they make is a good one based on the research paper you link to. Heres why.
The take home message in the research paper is that alkalizing solutions in the case of acidosis in calves with diarrhea is was associated with much higher survival rates (even when fed with the milk) than when not used. In the discussion section it references a paper that did find a effect with oral bicarb solutions on milk digestibility and this is probably the reference for the two extension publications. However this paper does not support these earlier conclusions that alkalizing agents should be avoided during milk feeding. It also throws into question of the effect of bicarb on digestibility of milk since the calves on acetate, which does not alkalize the abomasum, had the same weight gain as those on bicarb.
What this all means to you Kami is that if your foal is acidotic this paper suggests it would be wise to use alkalizing electrolyte solutions even though it will be closely associated with feeding time. If you want to do the best possible, acetate alkalization may be better than bicarb in neonates that are not badly compromised but recovery rates and weight gain in the two groups were similar.
DrO |
kbrooks
Member
Username: kamibroo
Post Number: 40
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 28, 2008 - 10:13 am: | |
Thanks for taking the time to help me understand this better. |
