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Kim Baxter
Member
Username: kbaxter
Post Number: 6
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 25, 2008 - 5:01 pm: |   |
Hi Dr. O
I have been reading here for quite some time but am relatively new to keeping horses at home. Here is my problem. We have a 14 month old yearling who started exhibiting signs of mild colic 2 weeks ago. First call the vet was to administer banamine and wait. She got up, passed gas and defecated. I thought maybe it was the change in grass hay so I took her off of it. A few days later she did it again. Called the vet ..said the same thing banamine and see if she will get up and eat...she is eating just fine, matter of fact she is eager to eat. Had another episode Easter Sunday. Called the vet and he asked me about her joints..I hadn't noticed since in turn out she is runs, bucks and rears and does what yearlings do but she was a little stiff in the knees and tender at the stifle. I had had her on MSM but she had been off of it for about 3 weeks..I didn't know how crucial of a supplement for yearling it is. I have since added it back into her diet. So he thought maybe she was laying down because her joints hurt and that she was getting gas colic from not standing up enough, he also thought maybe she might be developing ulcers. I put her on Mylanta right away and was told to change her diet from 2lbs of Equine Jr and 3 lbs of mixed pellets 2x's aday to 3 lbs of mixed pellets and 1 lb of mixed jr and strategy 2 x's aday with mylanta 60 cc twice aday. Well this morning she was down again..gave her the mylanta she got up and ate her breakfast. I fed her the new program and this after noon she was sitting in the doggie position biting at her belly. I gave her more mylanta and have another call into the vet. I think giving her the grass is what started her belly ache again today. What should a 14month old yearling be eating? And what probiotics should I have her on to help get her digestion on track..I might add that until 2 weeks ago all I had here were mares until we bought our gelding. Within days she was exhibiting symptoms of a heat cycle. I was told that this can sometimes cause them to have gas colic due to cramps etc. I have had lots of advice but no real improvement. My feeling is to keep her off the bermuda until this improves...I am feeling frustrated because I am not sleeping for fear what I might find in the morning. Can anyone help me. I am hoping my vet can come out..maybe all she needs is to be tubed with oil. I don't know but it reminds me when I was a new mom and my baby first got sick..I wanted the Dr. to keep her because I couldn't stand the stress of worrying.
Thanks
Kim |
Elizabeth Kaufman
Member
Username: ekaufman
Post Number: 447
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 26, 2008 - 8:57 am: | |
Hi Kim,
What are her vital signs before/during/after one of these episodes? What is her overall size/condition etc.? Dr. O will be able to respond more directly, but I personally don't see enough information here to make a diagnosis. Many yearlings have large joints, and most of them will respond to stifle pressure (it hurts to get poked in there), so I don't know whether that is significant.
If she is colicking, it is not in her best interest to feed her until the colic is completely resolved. That is typically many hours, and never (in my experience) minutes. Never feed a colic! When a colicked horse returns to food, it's typically hay and not concentrates. I would wait several days before reintroducing concentrates/grain/whatever. All this is in the article.
Lastly (and I'm not trying to be a jerk) Mylanta does not, to my knowledge, treat ulcers in horses. So if she has them, the Mylanta will not be helping resolve them.
Let us know how she gets on, vitals, etc. and good luck! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 20334
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 26, 2008 - 9:10 am: | |
Well let's clear up the misconceptions first as all of this just adds to your confusion. There is no clear benefit to giving either MSM or probiotics to your yearling. I don't believe them to be harmful but understand your problems are not related to this. Nor are there any problems likely to be fixed with a tubing of oil either. You should also note that, as therapy, the Mylanta will not heal ulcers. For a yearling the article on "Gastric Ulcers in Adults" will be closer to what you would see in a yearling than the foal article. If this is the diagnosis you need to start effective therapy as described in the article.
Next on feeding, there are thousands of ways you can correctly feed a yearling but the most important point on feeding any horse, other than nursing foals perhaps, is free access to high quality forage (see Overview of Nutrition for more on this). Changes in the forage should be made slowly. For our specific thoughts on the subject of feeding yearlings see Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Horse Feeds, Feeding » Feeding the Growing Foal, Nutrition for Young Horses. It will also give you guidelines on how to determine if your feeding regimen good.
Lastly if you continue to have problems you do need to get your vet involved to help with getting a correct diagnosis and effective therapy.
DrO |
Little King Ranch
Member
Username: eoeo
Post Number: 336
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 26, 2008 - 9:32 am: | |
We had a yearling filly last year that had colic bouts for the first 4 or 5 erratic heat cycles she had. After the weather warmed up and she was moved in with only fillies within sight, she stopped. First time I had ever had this happen and hopefully the last. I lost a lot of sleep over it. EO |
Kim Baxter
Member
Username: kbaxter
Post Number: 7
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 26, 2008 - 1:17 pm: | |
Thanks all and Dr. O. The vet recommended to start her on Neighlox and to add good quality alfalfa to her her diet. I was told to use MSM to help her joints to stay "lubed" up. Probiotics to help in digestion. Her vitals are find. No fever, heart rate and respiration normal. Matter of fact after you get her to get in the morning to eat breakfast she is alert and rearing to go. She seems stiff in the morning. Yesterday afternoon though she did have a stomach ache and after I gave her the antacid she acted much better. My vet has been in contact with me and so has the breeder where she was born. She is the one who recommended the probiotics, she swears it's helped many of her yearlings who have experienced this. She is also the one that said that these mild episodes could be related to her heat cycles. |
Kim Baxter
Member
Username: kbaxter
Post Number: 8
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 26, 2008 - 1:31 pm: | |
I forgot to mention her weight and body size. She is approx. 900lbs. Her coat is good but she still has her winter coat and its in the mid 80's here.(Phoenix, AZ) Looking at her she looks the picture of health. Accept for this gas thing. How do you treat for ulcers if they are suspected? My vet quoted to me the study done at Texas A&M on the benefits of alfalfa for treatment of ulcers. This morning I introduced a small amount of alfalfa to her diet. So far she is fine...I am going to turn her out before it gets too warm. I also might add that I have also introduces electrolytes to her diet a week ago when the temperatures started to climb. She is not a good water drinker so this has helped in that area. |
Fran C
Member
Username: canter
Post Number: 1435
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 26, 2008 - 2:59 pm: | |
Just a thought: since you live in AZ, I wonder if she isn't picking up sand/dirt as she eats and perhaps has sand in her gut which may be causing the colic episodes? If she does, the vet should be able to hear it quite easily. |
Kim Baxter
Member
Username: kbaxter
Post Number: 9
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 26, 2008 - 3:13 pm: | |
I give her psyllium for 7 days the first of every month. And yes, she does nibble off the ground and it's very sandy where I live. I have thought of that and mentioned it to my vet. He thinks differently, but I agree with you. It was my first thought. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 20339
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 - 6:44 am: | |
Kim,
how to treat ulcers is explained in Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Gastric Ulcers » Gastric Ulcers in Foals.
DrO |
Rodney D
New Member
Username: parker66
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 - 4:37 pm: | |
Yeah, alfalfa hay will prevent ulcers. I have five racehorses on alfalfa, they are free to eat it anytime they want. We scoped all of them and not one ulcer in any of them. I challenge anyone to go up and down a shedrow at a racetrack and find five horses w/out ulcers. It should be noted that the horses are at a training facility and not at the track which also helps since they have turnout, etc. |
Kim Baxter
Member
Username: kbaxter
Post Number: 10
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 - 5:32 pm: | |
Thanks again everyone. Well here is the update apparently she is growing way too fast and her tendons are not keeping up with the growth. She is buckling over at the fetlock and it looks like she is walking on her tippy toes. Vet gave her tetracycline and a equinox for pain. We are taking her off grain all together, mixed pellets and alfalfa only. We didn't scope her for ulcers because her biting at herself was probably just because she hurts. I am keeping her on the neighlox to help her digestion because she will be up and down a lot. Vet thinks another injection of tetracycline will be needed in 30 days. I asked how an antibiotic helps with tendon issues and he said there isn't any explanation for it. Any way I have learned a lot and thanks Dr. O for pointing me in the right direction and being patient with me. I sometimes have trouble navigating around this site for the information that I am looking for only because I am not always sure what it is I want. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 20351
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 28, 2008 - 7:01 am: | |
Whoa guys, alfalfa helps create a less acidic environment so may ameliorate the situation some but saying it prevents ulcers is going a bit too far.
Kim, I believe the tetracycline works through its ability to bind calcium in a manner that causes the muscles to relax for a day or two. For more on treating both acquired and congenital contracture see, Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Muscle & Tendon Diseases » Tendon Laxity and Contracture. I think with practice you will get better navigating. What did our article say about the Neigh-lox?
DrO |
Kim Baxter
Member
Username: kbaxter
Post Number: 11
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 28, 2008 - 1:23 pm: | |
Nothing about Neigh-lox by it's name. Or am I missing something? Pepto was mentioned but my guess it falls in the same line as mylanta or maalox.Her appetite isn't very good today..it was much better before the antibiotic was administered. She is standing though and I walked her some this morning. I can just tell that she is uncomfortable. My vet thinks Gastroguard is way to expensive but I want to do what is right for my horse...so far she isn't exhibiting any of the signs listed in the article for ulcers. I think all along its been her legs and I am not experienced enough to tell what her problem was until it was extremely obvious. |
Rodney D
Member
Username: parker66
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 28, 2008 - 1:25 pm: | |
I'm speaking from my experience. 90% of racehorses have ulcers. We feed our five alfalfa and there isn't even one little ulcer.
Here is some info on the Texas A & M study. I'm sure someone has the complete findings.
http://agnews.tamu.edu/showstory.php?id=224 |
Rodney D
Member
Username: parker66
Post Number: 7
Registered: 3-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 28, 2008 - 1:27 pm: | |
Kim,
There is a generic version of Gastro Gard. It's about 1/3 the price. I would try that. |
Kim Baxter
Member
Username: kbaxter
Post Number: 12
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 28, 2008 - 7:19 pm: | |
Thanks Rodney..good article. I started her on alfalfa (just a small amount) these past few days.
Where can I find the generic? |
Rodney D
Member
Username: parker66
Post Number: 13
Registered: 3-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 28, 2008 - 9:54 pm: | |
I believe it's called "ulcer gard". I used 30 tubes once and the vet showed me the generic vs. the real thing side by side the omeprazole was the same in each one. I also think there is more than one generic brand. To be honest with you, it's asanine for Gastro Gard to cost as much as it does. |
Kim Baxter
Member
Username: kbaxter
Post Number: 13
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 28, 2008 - 10:05 pm: | |
Drug companies....it is ridiculous. Even some of the meds I have to take are outrages. Thanks for the info. I do love this website. This has been one of the best sources for equine information I have found. Having my horses in my backyard is SOOOO different then when I was boarding. One of my horses I have had for 5 years and still didn't know how she acted around meal time..she is hilarious. |
KATHLEEN WHEAT
Member
Username: kathleen
Post Number: 776
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 29, 2008 - 1:37 pm: | |
Kim,
U-Guard also comes in a powder form and my mare loves it. |
Tonya
Member
Username: pbauer
Post Number: 444
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 29, 2008 - 4:00 pm: | |
Dear Kim,
Some more info. for your consideration...from internet site:
Here is a link to the EquiTum:
http://www.vetworldmed.com/product.sc;
Other products from the same site:
http://www.vetworldmed.com/category.sc;
You can search for Ulcer Control products there...U-Guard, Gastro-Guard, Neigh-Lox, and more. In general, these products contain ingredients similar to those found in human products of the same nature. Calcium Carbonate and/or Magnesium Oxide are the most common ingredients (alone or in combo). However, you can feed these things without paying a fortune for designer products. They work the same way when in mineral form as they do when ground into fine powder.
The bottom line when dealing with a horse that might be prone to, or already has, ulcers is to get them off grain, provide free choice hay and a non-grain based nutrients dense feed, and allow them plenty of exercise and socialization. Breaks from daily work routines and showing...such as trail rides or playing in the field with other horses are also important to their mental well being and lessening stress of a competitive lifestyle.
Same internet site:
I've heard of some really good results with the U-7 though.
U-7 website:
http://www.finishlinehorse.com/product/category8.asp End
Best,
Tonya |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 20361
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 30, 2008 - 9:19 am: | |
Kim the Neigh-Lox is an antacid.
DrO |
Kim Baxter
Member
Username: kbaxter
Post Number: 14
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 30, 2008 - 5:39 pm: | |
I compared the Neigh-lox to the ingredients for mylanta, pepto and others like it and your right. There all basically the same thing. An antacid. She is improving. I give her free choice hay with some alfalfa morning and night. I took her off her grain accept for a small amount that I put her supplements into in the morning. Controlled exercise through out the day and her legs seem to be improving. The tetracycline has apparently taken affect and she is back to acting like her young (14 months) self again. Now to keep her from over doing it. She is surrounded by older horses no one is close to her age except for my mare who is 5 so she isn't getting horse play but she is being socialized. I spent a couple of weeks worrying myself to death about this filly and I am so glad to see her responding. Her mild symptoms for ulcers has disappeared but I know now that yearlings can be prone to them. Thank you Dr. O and everyone else for all the information you have shared with me. |
