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Message |
    
Sarah White
Member
Username: Louwhite
Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 12:35 am: |   |
Has anyone used this product for ulcers? Dr. O...any thoughts on their claims as written here?
http://www.vitaroyal.com/CompareNutrientBuffer.html |
Bob Stack R.Ph.
Member
Username: Bobs
Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 10:47 am: | |
Dear Sarah:
This product uses the antacids, calcium hydroxide and magnesium hydroxide. This is a typical antacid product,nothing new. No better or no worse than any other. The product advertisement makes negative mention of h2 blockers. This Vitaroyal works different than the h2 but if there are negative consequences for h2 then there are the same negative attributes of their anatacid. I have no problem with their product but if their ads are deceptive then what else is not being said. |
Sarah White
Member
Username: Louwhite
Post Number: 11
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 6:23 pm: | |
Hi Bob,
Thanks for you comments - much appreciated. I just contacted Vitaroyal and it was explained to me that they do NOT use calcium and magnesium hydroxide...they use oxide (I think I got that right). The lady I spoke to, Lindsey, really impressed me with her knowledge - she has an extensive background in bio-chemistry. She said they definitely do not use h2 blockers. I've sent her the link to this posting in case she wants to respond in person. In the meantime, I am going to try a couple of the products suggested and will let you know how I get on.
Cheers,
Sarah/Lou |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12814
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 6:42 am: | |
Sarah there are so many pieces of unsupported statements and just plain nonsense in the list of claims I do not know where to begin. This should not be used as a substitute for ulcer therapy.
DrO |
Sarah White
Member
Username: Louwhite
Post Number: 12
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 12:40 pm: | |
Hi Dr. O,
Thanks for your response. FYI: here's the email I got from Vitaroyal about the difference:
We use calcium carbonate USP, magnesium oxide USP and zinc oxide USP in an oil suspension and the product is patented. As I said before, these ingredients are not water soluble as are the hydroxides, and do not cause acid rebound as do the hydroxides either. This is why we use them. We also have specific ratios of calcium/magnesium as well, to better address the imbalances in the environment from the years of environmental toxins that have built up resulting from commercial farming with toxin and heavy metal contaminated fertilizers, since that contamination was allowed starting back in 1976 with a Congressional act.
The bulk of our clients are race track veterinarians who continually have said for the past 10 years that they observe horses race better on our Nutrient Buffer® than any of the drugs, and Nutrient Buffer® is a fraction of the cost as well. That's why they like it so well. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12824
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 6:22 am: | |
As before Sarah, some of the above statements are not sensible and the statement that this might be better for ulcer treatment or prevention completely unsupported. I don't doubt there are some who feel this has helped, I have made mistakes in judgement also, but if it were me I would save my money.
DrO |
Bob Stack R.Ph.
Member
Username: Bobs
Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 10:10 am: | |
i just love the pharmacy side of things and this equine antacid. If an antacid is not soluble in water it will not work as an antacid. Both calcium carbonate and magnesium oxide are soluble in acids. Zinc oxide is not soluble so it is not an antacid. Magnesium oxide is converted to magnesium hydroxide in the stomach, Calcium carbonate is the worse offender for acid rebound. This type of formula has been around since at least the 1950's so nothing new here. It's good for fast resolution of symptoms in humans. In humans the omprazole type of antacid is the cure.
Bob Stack R.Ph. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12835
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 8:13 am: | |
I wondered about the oil base Bob. Since fats are not digested in the stomach, I have wondered if it might act as barrier to prevent any direct contact with the minerals? Really the bottom line Sarah is that a product like this needs careful testing to determine the effects on stomach acidity under different conditions but even imagining the very best for such a product the claims made in the ad and by the company are not consistant with what is known about equine nutrition and ulcer treatment.
DrO |
Bob Stack R.Ph.
Member
Username: Bobs
Post Number: 10
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 10:27 am: | |
Dear Dr. O:
With this product ,the oil based suspension is not a problem. Although initially( a minute or two ) the oil may prevent dissolution, after it mixes with the aqueous based stomach acid and is diluted it will dissolve. |
Sarah White
Member
Username: Louwhite
Post Number: 13
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 11:24 am: | |
Thanks Dr. O. I am hoping that the bio-chemist, Lindsey, for this product will jump on the post to engage in this discussion. I know you have a hundred posts to deal with but if you are curious, her email is vitamail@earthlink.net. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12849
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 5:12 pm: | |
Whoa Bob, are you saying that vegtable oils will dissolve in an aeqeous solution with a ph in the 2 to 3 range over a few hours? I don't think so. There may be an emulsifacation process of some sort, but dissolve? If you are right you would be correct is assuming it would not block a potential action, but I just don't see long chain vegtable oils dissolving under those conditions, am I completely off base here?
DrO |
Bob Stack R.Ph.
Member
Username: Bobs
Post Number: 11
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 8:05 am: | |
Dear Dr. O
The oil does not dissolve at all. It dilutes in the aqeuous stomach fluids exposing the water soluble antacids. AS the water soluble antacids come in contact with the aqueous medium, they dissolve. The oil slows down the effect of the anatacid but it is probably not clinically significant.
bob stack |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12861
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 9:51 am: | |
I see, I mistook what was dissolving in your previous post. You know when you get oil on your hands and then try to remove it with simple water it has an adherent effect that can be quite tenacious. You may be right, but it would not surprise me that mineral antacids in oil base are significantly less effective.
DrO |
