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Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 806
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 8, 2008 - 2:35 pm: |   |
On May 26 I vacinated my 2yr old filly with prestige v with havlogen, about 4 days later she developed a golf ball size lump on the right side under her jaw.
On June 18 my vet came out and pulled her wolf teeth. He looked at the lump which was still there, hadn't changed and didn't appear tender when pushed and prodded.
The lump has stayed with no change until Thursday morning.
When I went out in the morning the lump was bigger than what I could hold in my hand, somewhat tender, not hot, but very hard.
I have been taking a rectal temperature. yesterday was 36.7Celcius and today was 37.1
The temp seems low?? But hurray there is no fever.
She does not have snots, is eating, when I let her out this morning she went whipping around like a wild thing, although I think she was out of breath sooner than usual.
Nothing out of the ordinary happened, she never left the farm, the other mare does leave soemtimes but she is fine, so is the other 2yr old.
Could this location be an infected molar?
thank you |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 21692
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2008 - 10:12 am: | |
Hello Lori,
Without a little better description of the location of the lump it is hard to say. What did the veterinarian who examined her say it was?
DrO |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 809
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2008 - 12:36 pm: | |
The swelling is just inside the jaw bone on the right hand side, about 2 fingers widths from her throatlatch.
Oh sorry, I guess I forgot to finish the train of thought. The other vet just said it was a reaction to the vaccination, and not to worry. |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 810
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2008 - 12:56 pm: | |
The swelling starts on the inside of her jar bone so there is quite a bit of swelling that is hidden by her jaw bone.
It is about 6in long and 4in wide. Still very hard.
Her temp this morning is 37.4 |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 21699
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 10, 2008 - 8:47 am: | |
The location suggests a enlarged lymph node the size suggest you are palpating the base of the tongue. Neither seems to be vaccine related: maybe if the vaccine were given high on the neck that could drain to this lymph node?
DrO |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 812
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 10, 2008 - 10:56 am: | |
I gave the vaccine in the middle part of the 'v".
The swelling is large enough it is visible from the side, it protrudes below her jaw bone at least one inch.
Today the swelling has changed, it is rounder, somewhat smaller, squishier(new medical term) and more tender.
It still doesn't feel hot to the touch.
Still no fever or nose drainage. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 21700
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 10, 2008 - 6:16 pm: | |
How about a photo Lori?
DrO |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 818
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2008 - 10:22 pm: | |
Lucy swelling. This is what is visible below her jaw bone. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 21712
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 8:04 am: | |
The location is consistent to where the submandibular lymph nodes are Lori and it sounds like the previous veterinarian thought it to be a lymph node. SM lymph nodes enlarge for many reasons but most have to do with some sort of infection. Without any further symptoms or fever the nature of the infection remains unknown but the length of time this has gone on is significant. It could either be some ongoing problem in the head somewhere or even a local phenomena with some unresolved bit of inflammation from an earlier stimulation. The question is whether the recent exacerbation is a worsening of the ongoing cause or some new stimulation to the lymph node.
DrO |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 819
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 8:46 am: | |
The swelling has changed somewhat from when I first noticed it. It is rounder, with a softer exterior and a hard core.
It has also started to drain a this apparently clear fluid that turns yellow as it dries.
Ooh not enough knowledge here. I hope I am not describing some horrible disease!
It is more tender than it was but still no fever. I have noticed that when I take Lucy's temp first thing in the morning, she is about a 1/2 degree warmer than when I take her temp in the afternoon.
typical baby I guess warms right up when they sleep.
I notice Dr. o you did not mention Strangles. I hope that means it doesn't appear likely.
My 'in person' vet is coming today.
Which brings me to a very important point.
I want you to know how much I appreciate having your knowledgeable self so ready and willing to help allay our fears and to keep us on the straight and narrow track of good nutrition and good medicine.
When I am in doubt about just about anything concerning my horse I come here and see what is posted about it.
Without accurate knowledge it is easy to get 'off course' you just readjust the rudder and away we go with happier healthy horses.
PS I notice there has been a study done (horse health newsletter)concluding that horse owners suffer mental anguish when their horses are sick.....Who da thought it?
So you are not only helping the horses but the humans as well. Although maybe the psychologists won't like you.
Will give you an update tonight. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 21731
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 10:12 am: | |
The yellow you describe is serum seeping through and suggests this l.n. is going to abscess. A common event (we have one other such case being reported on HA as we speak) in horses and not indicative of a life threatening problem. Often strep is cultured out of these but many labs still have trouble differentiating Strangles from more common steps. For more on this and caring for l.n. abscessation, no matter what the cause, see the article on Strangles. Also there is an article on Abscesses and their care, the search engine should turn it up.
Thanks for keeping us informed.
DrO |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 821
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 11:04 am: | |
Yesterday Dr. M came and opened the swelling and great gobs of stuff poured out.
He said that looking at the lymph node alone it did look like strangles but considering everything else, including one not vaccinated pasture mate that is showing no symptoms at all and he has not heard of any strangle cases in the area, it most likely is not.
However, I asked him to do a culture because I want to know for sure.
We won't have the results before Monday so I will miss a scheduled clinic because just in case it is Strangles I won't take my mare off the farm and risk possible transfer.
The vet administered an injection of a sulpher based antibiotic and left me with a powder, Trimethoprim and sulfadiazine, to be administered once daily for 7 days. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 21736
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 8:01 am: | |
Interesting stuff puss. Could you briefly describe consistency, color, and odor? Sometimes these things are indicative of a particular organism.
DrO |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 824
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 8:25 pm: | |
Dr. O,
The first bit of puss was very thick, slimy deep yellow. urg!
Then it was mixed with serum and a bit of blood. No detectable odor.
I squished the lump around quite a bit until very little pus came out. At that time it was more blood and serum.
I can see her jaw again!
So, in anticipation of the drainage I brought my horse out of the corral and stood her in fresh snow. After the exam I scooped up the snow with the drainage and put it in a bucket. Dogs are soooo gross!!. I will want to clean the stall and her halter, what type of cleaner will kill this type of bacteria?
One more question; can dogs catch horse strangles? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 21745
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 15, 2008 - 8:17 am: | |
With no green and so thick, strep will be at the top of the list but we will have to wait to see. I agree the history strongly suggests this is not the strangles strep. Occasionally such abscesses are sterile. There are no reports of dogs catching Strangles but there is no doubt they can spread it mechanically.
DrO |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 839
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Nov 23, 2008 - 3:55 pm: | |
I finally have the results of the swab. It was not strangles.
The drainage continued for several days gradually tapering off.
There is a tooney size scab that is healing. It doesn't seem to be tender as I can feel around the area without it bothering Lucy.
The golf ball size lump that was there all summer appears to be gone.
Probably won't know for sure until healing is complete. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 21823
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 24, 2008 - 8:28 am: | |
What did the culture find Lori?
DrO |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 842
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 25, 2008 - 8:41 am: | |
I asked specifically if they knew what it was, the assistant I spoke with told me all the report said was, "negative for Strangles".
From a medical point I don't know if this makes sense but I wonder if she didn't have a sliver that caused all this? |
