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Kimc
New Member
Username: kimc1
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 12, 2009 - 2:28 pm: |   |
Before Christmas, Brooke began losing weight. She didn't show any symptoms. She had a crested neck and was overweight. I wormed her with fenbendozole the Sunday before Christmas. She shares 10 acres with her long time mate, Apache. They have free access to coastal bermuda hay. I had been feeding them each a 34.5 ounce container of equine senior morning and night (a treat). Friday, I noticed she had a loose stool which progressed to projectile diarrhea. She has no fever and is gurgling on both sides of stomach. Friday, the vet instructed I give her 8 ounces of live culture yogurt every 6 hours and reworm her. As of today, she still has diarrhea, however, it appears to be trying to form. Instead of 2 feet of liquid on ground it comes out in a projectile manner but makes two piles of cow-like patties. The stool samples the vet analyzed today show no parasites. One test he conducted indicated trace blood in the portion past the duodenum. I am a bit confused. He indicated she had no signs of ulcers in areas that could be treated. He speculated the trace blood could be from previous worming or small tumor that has gotten irritated. He indicated if she wasn't better by Thursday, he would suggest giving her stool product of a known healthy horse (forget the name but it was in your article). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. She is not showing much interest in her senior feed but continues to graze. She is weak obviously. Thanks. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 4420
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 12, 2009 - 8:26 pm: | |
Kimc, I wonder about cushings with the cresty neck then weight loss. Also, a lot of older horses can't seem to digest alfalfa very good. Our old boarder had to be fed grass hay plus supplements, and I've another older mare that has to eat grass or a grass mix. Both of these horses got severly loose stools. I'm not that familiar with Burmuda hay as we can't grow it here, but I wonder what the protien levels are and if it's rich like the alfala? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22111
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 - 8:16 am: | |
Welcome Kimc,
There are so many possibilities that it is difficult to know where to start.
With the weight loss and deworming ocurring well before the diarrhea, I am uncertain there is a connection. However, among other diseases, they might both be associated with nutritional problems or parasite problems. You cannot rule out parasite problems even in the face of the negative fecal since the recent deworming will knock down egg production for a time in even the worse problems.
Or there may be no relation between the weight loss and diarrhea. I think the finding of trace post duodenal blood of little significance other than it makes gastric ulcers less likely. I would be interested in:- the breed of your horse,
- weight by tape,
- assessed condition using the Henneke scale (Horse Care » Routine Horse Care » Estimating Weight, Height, and Body Condition Scoring),
- description of the quality of the hay,
- brief history of deworming practices,
- vital signs on physical exam,
- what are the signs of weakness?
- CBC and chemistries results if available
.
Note that within your profile there are places to put much of this information so that you don't need to post it every time you post a problem. It also provides us with a good background of your knowledge and experience which helps us provide more targeted help.
From the information provided I think it very important you consider the points in the article Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Weight Loss in Horses » Overview of Chronic Weight Loss and institute some of the recommendations for feeding horses that are loosing weight.
DrO |
Kimc
New Member
Username: kimc1
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 8:00 pm: | |
Thanks for the replies. I have been so busy with Brooke I am just now having time to access the computer. She still has diarrhea. It is about like cow patties now. This morning she was heaving (abdominal lift). This afternoon, after the vet assessed Brooke, he said she had lots of fluid buildup in her chest cavity. After slightly numbing the area, he stuck a large needle in both sides. Fluid drained for about 30 minutes. I was shocked! I felt so bad for her....not knowing she had fluid buildup. The vet took samples of the fluid, blood, and another stool sample. He should have most of the results tomorrow. She seemed to feel better which she should. She still has no fever. The fluid did not stop the needle up with particles (which sounds like a bad thing). If anyone has experienced anything like this, any insight would be helpful. Thank you. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: hollyw
Post Number: 37
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 8:23 pm: | |
Hi, Kimc,
I did a Google Search of "Fluid in Chest Cavity."
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fluid+in+chest+cavity&btnG=Google+Search&aq =1&oq=Fluid+in+C
I've never experienced it before, but maybe the above can give you some information that is transferable to horses? |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: hollyw
Post Number: 38
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 8:27 pm: | |
I also found this old discussion, Kimc, when I did a search of "Fluid in Chest Cavity." There were some other discussions, too, but some of them were about horses with injuries to the chest.
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Respiratory System » Pneumonia & Pleuropneumonia » Prognosis- Pleural Effusion |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22136
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 20, 2009 - 8:29 am: | |
KimC, until we know the character of the fluid it is impossible to go forward with a diagnosis. Once we have that a fairly small rule out list should present itself. We can say without fever (and without clumps) it does sound like this is not a bacterial infection but other than that will have to wait on the lab findings.
DrO |
Kimc
New Member
Username: kimc1
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 20, 2009 - 2:39 pm: | |
Brooke's bloodwork was normal other than her liver enzymes. They were slightly elevated. The second stool, like the first stool sample, showed trace levels of blood in the lower intestine. The samples of fluid showed cells indicative of lymphoma. This morning she greeted me with her morning hello, seemed to be moving much better, and was eager to eat her equine senior. However, she didn't finish it like she used to finish it and want more. She grazed over to the bird feeders and was grazing under them. She now eats in the yard so the other horse, Apache, doesn't rush her. Her stool was still loose. The vet suggested we try steroids. He indicated it may give her some time. I am still trying to comprehend the news. My goal is quality of life for her. What are your thoughts with the steroids or is it time to be her best friend? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22145
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 9:47 am: | |
I am sorry to hear about your results Kimc and it appears from your post you are aware of the prognosis. We have an article that explains more about this at Diseases of Horses » Cardiovascular, Blood, and Immune System » Lymphoma and Lymphosarcoma. The decision for euthanasia is not one I can make for you and will depend on many factors individual to your case but continued respiratory distress would certainly indicate a poor quality of life.
DrO |
Kimc
New Member
Username: kimc1
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 23, 2009 - 5:49 pm: | |
I am saddened to report, Brooke was put to sleep this morning. The vet said he could pull more fluid from her but I declined. She had an excellent breakfast of apples handfed slice by slice. She and Apache had a good morning together teasing each other with nips and rubs. I led him away to the barn while Nick stayed with Brooke. The vet put her to sleep. She peacefully laid down and was gone. Based on others recommendations, we let Apache out afterwards. It has been a sad day for all of us. He has stood and laid by her all day. I walked him down to my neighbor's horses to give him a break. He seemed to enjoy that. Now that we have buried her, he is pawing at the ground, standing and laying on her grave. Now my dilemma is what is the best approach to alleviate his stress. I know grieving is a natural process but with him having cushings, I don't want to get him too stressed. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 3575
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 23, 2009 - 6:25 pm: | |
Kim I am sorry to hear about Brooke, my condolences.
I had a gelding go through a terrible grieving process when I had to put "his mare" down. It took time but he got over it, he never seemed stressed...just quieter. Keep an eye on Apache, in a few weeks he may seem better. Since he is now by himself it may take a little longer, could you get him a companion?
Sorry for your Loss |
PattyB
Member
Username: pattyb
Post Number: 105
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 23, 2009 - 8:04 pm: | |
Dear Kim, I am so sorry to read your post today, a sad day for many I'm sure.
Like Diane has already posted, do you have access to maybe a companion for him? I think what helped my gelding thru the loss of his adopted mom (since he was 3 months old) was the company of the other mare, his adopted aunt. My entire farm of horses, goats, chickens, dogs, cats and ducks all went into quiet mode for a good ten days. They all ate alright but there was no enthusiasm what-so-ever until the morning of that tenth day.
Hang in there and spend as much extra time with him that you can....and visiting the neighbors horses was a great idea.
((((((((((Kimc)))))))))) |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: hollyw
Post Number: 47
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 23, 2009 - 9:49 pm: | |
Dear Kimc,
How hard it has been for you. Everything has happened so fast . . . so very sorry you lost your Brooke. It sounds as if you did everything just right and for her comfort. I agree with PattyB that it will be good for both you and for Apache for you to spend as much time together as is possible. You will find comfort together.
So many of us here have had to say farewell to our horse friends by putting them down. It's such a sad and necessary part of horse ownership. Take care. |
leslie645
Member
Username: leslie1
Post Number: 579
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 24, 2009 - 5:17 am: | |
((hugs)) |
LL
Member
Username: frances
Post Number: 806
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 24, 2009 - 7:14 am: | |
Just want to add my condolences. So sorry. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22163
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 24, 2009 - 8:27 am: | |
My condolences Kimc, I think your horse would find comfort in readily available forage.
DrO |
Fran C
Member
Username: canter
Post Number: 1827
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 24, 2009 - 10:28 am: | |
I'm very sorry to hear of your loss, Kim. I hope that by spending some extra time with Apache, you will both find comfort in each other.
Fran |
Lilo
Member
Username: lilo
Post Number: 1031
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 24, 2009 - 11:26 am: | |
Dear Kimc, My heartfelt condolences. I hope you and Apache will comfort each other, and that you might find a companion for Apache.
As Holly said, it is a sad and necessary part of animal ownership that we have to make that hard decision to end their suffering.
Lilo |
Cindy O'DELL
Member
Username: zarr
Post Number: 1277
Registered: 6-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 24, 2009 - 12:40 pm: | |
Kim. the love and dignity that you showed Brooke speaks of how much she was loved. My friends old guy passed and his friend stood on his grave for days. Like us, each is differnt, you have each other and you will know when Apache takes a deep breath and steps into the rest of his life! |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: vickiann
Post Number: 850
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 24, 2009 - 1:19 pm: | |
I am very sorry to hear of your loss, Kim.
May you and Apache find some comfort and peace through consoling each other and sharing extra time. |
Erika L
Member
Username: erika
Post Number: 1575
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 24, 2009 - 2:54 pm: | |
So sorry, Kim.
Erika |
elk
Member
Username: ekaufman
Post Number: 800
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 24, 2009 - 7:38 pm: | |
Very sorry to hear of your loss Kim. Time, activity, and food seem to help horses, but it's ok for him to be sad for a while too, as long as he is taking good care of himself. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 4469
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 24, 2009 - 9:27 pm: | |
I'm so sorry Kim. It is never easy to loose your horse, regardless of the circumstances.
We lost our old boarder a couple of weeks ago. I was very concerned about his "best buddy" one of our older mares. She went off her feed, moped around and seemed depressed and even had mild colic. The vet couldn't find anything wrong with her even though he did blood work on her. Slowly she started eating again, but even with other horses around her, she has just recently started acting normal again. I think, like people, they just need time and in the meantime,try and give Apache something else to think about when you can. |
Shirley Johnson
Member
Username: shirl
Post Number: 656
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 24, 2009 - 11:04 pm: | |
I'm so sorry for your loss.
Hugs,
Shirl |
Kimc
New Member
Username: kimc1
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 26, 2009 - 11:12 am: | |
Thank you for all your kind words. He is doing better than I expected being quieter and slower than normal. He is eating okay. He is going on the two mile dog walk in the afternoons with us. Seems to enjoy that. I let the cows in the pasture with him. Presently he isn't showing any interest but at least he has something in the field with him. I am probably going to get a companion for him. My niece and friends have offered to indefinitely loan him a companion. I plan to get other horses but not right now. My life would not be complete without a horse. Brooke is the bay in the photo. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: hollyw
Post Number: 51
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 26, 2009 - 12:57 pm: | |
Awww . . . I love a bay. Nice setting.
Yes, if you can get another horse, that will be great to take Apache's mind off of his friend. Nevertheless, the dynamics between Apache and his new pasture-mate may be totally different from that between him and Brooke. Either way, it will present a diversion for him. So neat that you take him on the "dog walk" with you. |
