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Discussion on Paratuberculosis in horses?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Jan 26, 2009 - 6:21 pm:
Dr.O. seems we have a bull with paratuberculosis, not our bull and supposedly tested johne's free. I did a quick search to see if horses can get this. I really didn't get an answer, so was hoping you'd know. The bull is in the pasture next to the horses, the one with the horses big bale in. The horses also graze this pasture, and have been known to eat cow poop Is this something I should be concerned about? I can keep them out of that pasture....couldn't get a hold of vet to ask...I tried
Thanks
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 - 9:24 am:
Yes I would be concerned. Although Johne's (pronounced: YO-knees) has not been reported in horses Merck states:
Paratuberculosis is a chronic, contagious granulomatous enteritis characterized in cattle by persistent diarrhea, progressive weight loss, debilitation, and eventually death. It is considered a List B disease by the OIE. The etiologic agent, Mycobacterium paratuberculosis , is believed capable of infecting and causing disease in all other ruminants (eg, sheep, goats, llamas, deer) and in captive and free-ranging wildlife. The infection has also been recognized in omnivores and carnivores such as wild rabbits, foxes, weasels, as well as nonhuman primates.
That is a pretty wide ranging list of possible animals and it is hard to see why not horses, though it obviously at worse is very rare in the horse. More important to you is you have cattle and this organism is very environmentally persistent (5 years?) so tracking by even small wildlife to your cows is a real possibility in my mind. On the other had these are questions that are better addressed to a cow doc specialist.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 - 5:01 pm:
Thanks Dr.O. it is a mess and a concern. This is not our bull he's been here about 2 mos. and has been run on the cornfield with the cows/calves...not on our property. Hubby brought him up Sun. to the pasture the horses WERE in with the big bale. He has been down pretty much since then and died today. He hasn't wandered the pasture at all and has only been in an area around the big bale.
The vet was here again today, the cow vet is also the horses vet so we had a long discussion about the possibilities of contamination with the cows/calves and the horses. According to him new research shows (or maybe it's old) that the organism can only live where it falls (in the feces) it doesn't spread so to speak. He said the most common type of transport is through cow (if infected) to calf through the milk OR being kept in dirty pens. He SAID that's why you usually see it more in dairy cattle. According to him anyway he thinks from the way we feed our cows/calves....we unroll the hay bales and spread them out in different places that the calves risk factor was probably low...I HOPE!
As far as the horses go he said as long as they were in a separate pasture and not in contact with the bulls feces they should be fine, although I did forget to ask about the waterer...he drank out of that before he went down and it is shared with the horses. He said it IS possible for horses to get it BUT rare. Once we dispose of the bull we are going to clean up all the hay and feces from him. I'm still not going to let the horses out there for quite some time just to be on the safe side. According to what I read on the net, john's disease can stay viable for a year or better in the envirorment, but hopefully with the removal of the contaminated feces we will be ok, it appears it doesn't leave the feces and go into the ground so to speak. Thanks
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 - 8:13 pm:
Never a dull moment on the farm, is there Diane?
Sorry to hear that you are having to contend with this big mess.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 8, 2009 - 8:28 am:
Dr.O. I know this isn't quite horse related directly, but how long after death can a post mortem be done? Since the bull died we have had 3 cows die, the latest today, that's just too much for coincidence and would like to have a post mortem done on this last cow. She was alive yesterday and dead this morning of nothing apparent anyway...that's how the last 2 were also. Hubby called the vet office, but apparently no one is on call. Would tomorrow be to late for one? Does anyone know??? Thanks
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 8, 2009 - 9:33 am:
So sorry to hear about this bad news, Diane.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 8, 2009 - 6:42 pm:
Thanks Vicki, apparently the cows didn't have Johne's, after googling a little I almost have to suspect some type of clostridium. We did get a hold of the vet and he said he could "post" the cow tomorrow so hopefully we will find out what's going on. On my routes I have been seeing a lot of dead cows at farms, vet said since the economy is so bad Blackleg was coming back with a vengeance since farmers are electing not to vaccinate...we do vaccinate, but nothing is 100%
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