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Heidi Wright
Member
Username: remmi
Post Number: 37
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 13, 2009 - 2:17 pm: |   |
I have read the articles on skin diseases and sheath cleaning. My 7 year old gelding started showing signs of intense itchiness in his sheath about a month ago. His tail swished, he kicked and he would try to reach around and scratch his sheath. I had not cleaned his sheath for about 6 months so I did that using Excalibur. It was quite dirty. He greatly appreciated the sheath cleaning and I could tell by his reactions that the itchiest area was at the sheath entrance and the up along the belly wall.
I talked to my vet and she suggested squirting plain yogurt up his sheath everyday for a week. That did not help. He was so itchy again this morning that I went ahead and cleaned it again using warm water and Excalibur. He again greatly appreciated it but it really wasn't very dirty. I suggested to my vet that we culture but she said they don't recommend doing that as the yogurt and cleaning would disrupt the ability to get a good culture.
Should I just assume this is a yeast infection and go forward with the "azole" type products? Are there any symptoms, other than itching, that would point specifically to a yeast infection? His sheath is normal looking, there is no abnormal discharge, and he has no problem urinating or dropping. I have searched for a bean but have never been able to find one.
Any suggestions on next steps? He is so miserable!! |
Mandy
Member
Username: bucky
Post Number: 246
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 13, 2009 - 7:30 pm: | |
My horse has the same problem, I will be interested in the responses you get! |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: hollyw
Post Number: 248
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 13, 2009 - 8:22 pm: | |
I wonder if Gold Bond Medicated Powder might help? Have you tried some Bag Balm? It's got antiseptic properties, and the lanolin will give the skin a good coating in case there are gnats that are bothering him.
We've had gnats already on the warm days we've had . . . and they have chewed some of the horse's ears quite a bit, but they leave seepage and scabby residue in the ears. |
Melissa Boschwitz
Member
Username: amara
Post Number: 508
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 13, 2009 - 8:30 pm: | |
My pony has always had an itchy sheath, but he does have tumours on his penis. they havent gotten any larger in the 13 years i've had him, and we've never had them tested or anything because of that.. he did get a bladder infection about 1 1/2 years ago, dont know why...vet never said anything to me about a yeast infection...he gets cleaned regularly...
my pony doesnt itch himself raw, and because its been a LONG standing issue with him, i actually made a scratching post for him that is about belly height, and he's out there daily, getting a good scritch (he also scritches the rest of his body on trees, poles, etc, but never in a way that causes him harm..)..
sorry couldnt be any help, and i think our cases are very different, because yours just started, but thought i'd share my experience anyways... |
Jesse Mitchell
Member
Username: mitch316
Post Number: 56
Registered: 2-2009
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 13, 2009 - 8:33 pm: | |
Heidi, this may have changed, but other than symptoms, verifying a diagnosis of yeast can only be completed by looking for a "fungal wall" under a microscope. They may have some blot test or field test, but I have found those to be unreliable. But most vets just rely on symptomatic diagnoses. The yogurt is used to bring the bacteria/yeast that is present in all horses back into balance, whereas antibiotic would allow the yeast to go wild and antifungals would do the same for bacteria. But, this is a long process, using yogurt.
It does indeed sound like a yeast infection, but those have a specific look and smell that I obviously cannot on here. Maybe Dr. O could give a better answer than this, especially on the testing. It would not be unheard of to give antifungals for a short burst to bring the count down, but instead of the expensive "equine and Bovine", I always used Tinactin or Lotrimin with good results, but would probably be told that was wrong by most equine vets because of the low doses of actual medicine. It is important with whatever treatment you use to go the full two weeks of treatment, even though he will probably be symptom free after the third or fourth day, because a resistant fungus is almost impossible to get control of. Sorry so long, but hopefully this helps. |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 2424
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 13, 2009 - 8:55 pm: | |
I would be concerned the Gold Bond Powder may burn...think I used that on myself for some reason, some place, and it made me more uncomfortable. Bag Balm might be better, but I'd vote for the antifungus ointments to try first.
I wonder if washing him with some of the anti itch things we'd use...like the collodial oatmeal, or something we'd soak in for an all over itch? |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: hollyw
Post Number: 249
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 13, 2009 - 9:10 pm: | |
The Gold Bond burned you, Angie? I think it has eucalyptus in it . . .
I have used it before on sweet itch-type stuff on the underline during "no-see-um" season . . . with good results. Sometimes I put the Gold Bond on, and then coated it with petroleum jelly . . . but it gets messy. |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 2425
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 13, 2009 - 9:32 pm: | |
Maybe burned isn't the right word. I thought it was a menthol like "cooling/burning" I guess depending on how you look at it. So cooling can feel burning on inflammed skin, at least that is what I seem to remember!
Now if I can only remember where I was cooling & burning!
Heat rash I think.
And maybe is was the GB ointment, not the powder, I have both on hand.
At any rate, not sure if that would be a good idea to put inside a horses sheath, or maybe even on the outside of such a sensitive area!
Just my 2 cents. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22542
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 14, 2009 - 12:03 am: | |
Hello Heidi,
It is hard to interpret what you mean by intense itchiness (pruritus), I would usually associate this with self mutilation?
Yeast infections are not common in the sheaths of male horses but I cannot rule it out. If your horse is showing intense pruritus that a good cleaning did not resolve, I would suggest a thorough exam including sedation with acepromazine to allow a good inspection. If the veterinarian feels the recent therapy will interfere with the results, waiting 72 hours after the last treatment should be enough to allow the flora to return to where culturing lesions should have significance.
DrO |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 4627
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 14, 2009 - 2:08 am: | |
I would just add that you need to be really sure to rinse throughly after using Excalibar or any cleansing agent, otherwise the residue could cause a reaction in some horses. KY jelly does a good job and I've never had a horse have a reaction to it. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 3773
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 14, 2009 - 6:55 am: | |
Hi Heidi, even here in N. Il. those gnats have been out. My geldings get very itchy where you describe....around the tip of the sheath and the belly line directly above. It would seem different horses have different sensitivities to these gnat bites. One gelding gets beside himself with ichiness, the other not so much.
I put clear swat all over the OUTSIDE of their sheaths and down their belly line, within days there is relief from the ichiness/irritation. every other day they get "swatted".....Just another idea for you |
Kathy Hayden
Member
Username: kshayden
Post Number: 60
Registered: 6-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 14, 2009 - 10:14 am: | |
War Paint is what I use on the belly line here in N CA. It is the only product I have found that lasts - in the old days, we mixed powdered sulfar with vasaline, but I haven't found the powder for some time. (we also put the powdered sulfar (no vasaline) in our socks to deter the chiggers and ticks in MO.
Hope you can help your guy's itchiness.
Kathy |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: hollyw
Post Number: 250
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 14, 2009 - 10:34 am: | |
Kathy, I had never heard about the powdered sulfur before until moving here to KS. A neighbor told me that it is great for spreading on the lawns and will keep fleas and ticks away. I think we can get it here at the local Farmer's Co-op. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22545
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 14, 2009 - 1:09 pm: | |
We had a house painter working one year who saw a big black rat snake in the yard. Being deathly afraid of snakes he asked if he could put a ring of sulfur around the house to keep the snakes away. Though I chuckled I said go ahead. In the summer sun the smell permeated the house for weeks until finally enough rain fell to wash it away, so consider yourself forewarned.
DrO |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 3775
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 14, 2009 - 1:48 pm: | |
BUT Dr.O. did it keep the snakes away??? I could put up with some "rotten egg" smell if it kept those creatures away...I would even consider powdering myself down |
Shirley Johnson
Member
Username: shirl
Post Number: 669
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 14, 2009 - 2:07 pm: | |
My former horse had horrible reaction to bugs, especially on her mid line and my vet recommended using Zinc Oxide. Worked very well for any affected areas.
Shirl |
Heidi Wright
Member
Username: remmi
Post Number: 38
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 15, 2009 - 10:51 am: | |
Dr. O, what I mean by intense itchiness is in an attempt to relieve himself he will swish his tail, kick out, raise his hind leg and try to get head around to his sheath but he can't reach. When I massage his sheath he goes nuts, and the whole time I am cleaning his sheath his head is bobbing up and down and he stretches out. Fortunately no self mutilation.
Thanks everyone for your ideas and suggestions. I am still focused mainly on the possibility it is a yeast infection as this started in Feb, and I live in northern Illinois - we still don't have any bugs out yet.
The good news is I started treating him with generic Lotrimin three days ago and I have not seen him act itchy since. That great, but on the other hand I am not so sure he would get immediate relief from lotrimin - so maybe it's a coincidence. To be safe I plan to treat him for two weeks as per the directions on the label. Dr. O, should I follow that up with yogurt in his sheath in an attempt to help rebalance the correct microflora?
Lotrimin treats athlete's foot and jock itch. It was a tad bit awkward at Walgreens check out counter as I placed a huge pile of jock itch medicine on the counter - I bought every tube they had in stock - there was complete silence in the check out line and nobody wanted to make eye contact!!! |
PattyB
Member
Username: pattyb
Post Number: 149
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 15, 2009 - 1:26 pm: | |
"It was a tad bit awkward at Walgreens check out counter as I placed a huge pile of jock itch medicine on the counter - I bought every tube they had in stock - there was complete silence in the check out line and nobody wanted to make eye contact!!!"
Oh Heidi, thanks for a good laugh this afternoon. Reminded me of a true story involving condoms....oh never mind. And another one equally as embarrassing involving a meat mallet...........
Glad to hear something is working for you. I had a buckskin dunn that loved to straddle bushes and rock back and forth to scratch his underside. Nothing as concerning as yours but he sure did look funny. |
Mandy
Member
Username: bucky
Post Number: 247
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 15, 2009 - 1:41 pm: | |
Lol, funny
one word for you guys,
http://www.drugstore.com
|
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22553
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Mar 16, 2009 - 8:43 am: | |
Heidi, I don't think the microorganisms in the yogurt would be the same found in the sheath.
DrO |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: hollyw
Post Number: 257
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Monday, Mar 16, 2009 - 10:17 am: | |
Dr. O., after that comment, I doubt I will ever be able to eat yogurt or think about it the same way again.
****************
Mandy, . . . LOL. |
Jesse Mitchell
Member
Username: mitch316
Post Number: 59
Registered: 2-2009
| | Posted on Monday, Mar 16, 2009 - 12:46 pm: | |
Dr. O and all, yogurt is one of those "old fashioned" remedies that the old vet I interned with in Alabama used quiet often. He claimed (He was 75 at the time) that it helped regulate the balance between bacteria and yeast. Holly, you really can see yogurt move under a microscope, especially the plain organic kind! But it is good for you, ya know, ha. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: hollyw
Post Number: 264
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Monday, Mar 16, 2009 - 7:28 pm: | |
GULP! . . . we really DO need an "I feel sick" icon.
I like my food STILL . . .as in NOT MOVING! I ate so much yogurt and granola back in the 70s; actually made my own yogurt on a homemade, yogurt maker that a friend manufactured, and my stomach actually starts to turn over when I think of eating yogurt today . . . I thought it was because I OD'd on it . . . but now I know the real reason why my stomach "turns." Yuck . . . blehhhhhhhhhhh! |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 2430
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Mar 16, 2009 - 7:42 pm: | |
Holly,
You can see lots of things move under a microscope, it's just best not to think about 'em! Yogurt is GOOD for You!
That reminds me, I was scratching Tango on the underside of his tail today...think I should clip my fingernails, and scrub good!
DrO,
Geesh, are ya sure it's not the same microorganisms? OOoooo boy.... |
LL
Member
Username: frances
Post Number: 846
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 10:39 am: | |
Holly, don't forget WE are covered with crawling hatching breeding microorganisms ourselves if you look at our skins under a microscope.
Better just not to go there... |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: hollyw
Post Number: 269
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 11:15 am: | |
Yeah . . . I know . . . I started college as a Bio major . . .
but I don't EAT my skin . . . lol . . . and it was just the combination of yogurt, itchy sheaths, and crawly bugs that brought on the nausea. |
LL
Member
Username: frances
Post Number: 847
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 4:19 pm: | |
Mmm, yummy! |
Heidi Wright
Member
Username: remmi
Post Number: 51
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 - 11:44 pm: | |
OK, it's been 10 months since my horse first started showing symptoms of an itchy sheath, and his symptoms are now worse than ever. It seemed to get better over the summer - not totally gone but tolerable. But since the weather has gotten colder his symptoms have gotten worse. I thought I saw some level of improvement after treating for 3-4 weeks with Clotrimizole, but it didn't totally go away. He is so itchy that it is difficult to work around him because he swishes his tail, kicks and raises his hind leg trying to get me to scratch his sheath, and keeps trying to reach his sheath with his nose.
My vet took a culture and she said he had normal levels of yeast/bacteria. She didn't know what to do and basically said its something he has to learn to live with. That doesn't seem like a good outcome for my horse, so I have to do something more to help him. I was advised by a different vet who uses holistic practices to remove him from all pelleted feed, and to feed him beet pulp and oats instead. I did that and while it did help reduce an exercise cough that he has always had, it didn't stop the itching. Now I am trying Rhus Tox as a homeopathic remedy, and I have been told that it takes a week or two to work, so no report on that yet. I also taken him off the pine pellet bedding and put him on regular pine shavings, as they seem less dusty, thinking maybe the dust was getting into his sheath when he lies down. That has reduced the dust levels in my barn but has not affected his itchiness.
It appears that his sheath is getting dirty and seems like black greasy type dirt, which can accumulate in a few days. Our pastures are snow covered now and he has no access to dirt, so I don't think that it's dirt getting up into his sheath.
I was told my a nutrition company that I need to "detox" my horse - that he must have a hind gut problem that is disrupting his system and producing an allergic reaction that is causing itchiness.
What in the heck do I do? Do I take him to UW Madison or UW Illinois for indepth testing? Do I do another round of Clotrimizole - maybe the yeast infection never really went away and has reoccured?
Dr. O, any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated.
Heidi |
DianE
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 5505
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 17, 2009 - 6:01 am: | |
Heidi, I feel for you Hank went through the same thing in Oct. He really was miserable.
Thankfully his resolved! I cleaned his sheath and penis 5 days in a row with warm water and nothing else. I don't know if something was stuck in there I finally got out or what for sure. It also had an "off" smell nothing offensive, but not quite right.
Here's my thread on it...sounds very much like your horse.
http://www.horseadvice.com/cgi-bin/advisor/board-auth.cgi?file=/10/349969.html |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 24186
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 17, 2009 - 6:24 am: | |
Heidi, I am unaware of a "toxic hind gut reaction" that causes a allergy exhibited by intense pruritis of the sheath.
Was the horse sedated so that the whole penis, down to the fornix, could be thoroughly cleaned and examined? What was found when this was done?
DrO |
L Mendez
New Member
Username: canela
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 17, 2009 - 3:05 pm: | |
I use Baby oil in a spray bottle, I spray my stallion 2 times a week to keep him moist and lubricated. I have never had any problems. |
Heidi Wright
Member
Username: remmi
Post Number: 52
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 17, 2009 - 3:59 pm: | |
Dr. O - yes, my vet inspected his entire penis and cleaned it. Nothing abnormal was found. The interesting thing is his penis is not itchy - it's mainly the ceiling of his sheath up against the belly wall that drives him the most crazy.
I spoke to my vet this morning, and she suggested doing a full panel of allergy testing. She is going to draw blood on Monday. Is it possible that he is allergic to something and it is manifesting itself in an itchy sheath?
Is it significant that it has gotten worse in cold weather?
Heidi |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 24193
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 17, 2009 - 7:05 pm: | |
With a winter time exacerbation it suggests insects bites are not the problem. However over time culicoides hypersensitivity can cause pruritus year round and not just while being bit.
And while other allergies are possible there are no dependable blood tests for them. These blood tests for allergens are neither specific (so often identify things the horse is not allergic to as allergens) nor are they sensitive (so often miss true allergens).
With this history and the lack of any clear cause I would consider a referral to an equine dermatologist before blood testing, hopefully the dermatologist will not stoop to this type testing but some do!
Before you go with either expensive testing of questionable value or a referral you could consider two anti-inflammatory treatments since there appears to be no obvious indication of infection. You might try an antihistamine and if that does not work consider dexamethasone / prednisolone therapy. If you like before systemic treatment you could try local treatment with OTC creams but if that fails I would certainly consider oral therapy.
DrO |
