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carolyn beverage
New Member
Username: carrieb

Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2009
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have a 14yr. old saddlebred that in the early winter had a fever 103 and slight nasal discharge , I gave him antibiotics and it went away but bad breath return within 2 weeks gave another round of stonger antibiotics bad breath retuned in about 2 weeks again. The horse looks good and eats well. Could this be a tooth problem? The smell seems to come from the nasal area.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 22581
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 7:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Welcome carolyn,
Yes this could be a tooth problem but it also could be a sinus, guttural pouch, or pharyngeal problem. Such a odor suggest either rotting food or tissue necrosis. Malodorous breath is potentially a serious problems so I would have the veterinarian out to identify the cause.
DrO
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carriebev
Member
Username: carrieb

Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2009
Posted on Monday, Jan 25, 2010 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Don't know where to go from here the horse still has an odor and a cough now and then. I have had him scoped the vet found a slight infection in the lungs no where else blood work was perfect. we have given him sulfur antibiotics, sulfa and penicillin together and then tried auremyicin he seem to improve on the penicillin but smell and cough came back after the antibiotic was stopped after 1 1/2 months of the penicillin and sulfa I have a great deal of money in this already and don't know what else to do
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24408
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Monday, Jan 25, 2010 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You have a history of nasal discharge and unusual odor and he diagnosed a slight lung infection by endoscopy? Did the horse have the more usual signs of lung infection with abnormal sounds on auscultation, rapid respiratory rate, or a fever? Where does he think the odor is coming from?

I wish I could provide you with a inexpensive solution to this problem and you have tried the number one empiric shot at this (a prolonged course of antibiotics) and without knowing what is wrong you cannot treat this problem. If we assume that a complete physical exam, exam of the mouth, and endoscopic exam of the upper respiratory tract was done which found the guttural pouches, pharynx, larynx, nasal passages (both), entrances to the sinuses, all normal the next step would be to radiograph the skull.
DrO
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carriebev
Member
Username: carrieb

Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2009
Posted on Monday, Jan 25, 2010 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

when the vet did the endoscopic exam the only thing he found was brown specs in the lungs which he said was infection the horses sinuses were mildly swollen and red. An equine dentist completely check his mouth and found nothing. He doesn't have a rapid respiratory rate or fever and nothing can be heard when you listen to his lungs
he has not had any discharge from his nose since the first virus that started all this
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24410
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

So he believes the odor is coming from the lungs??? With the lack of other signs / lab changes supporting the a diagnosis of necrotic lung disease, and my uncertainty of what the brown flakes are, it seems a bit unlikely but is that what he is saying? And if so what are his recommendations for a next step?
DrO
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carriebev
Member
Username: carrieb

Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2009
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

yes the vet is saying he has a low grade infection in the lungs he wants to do another scope, an ultrasound and a xray and more blood work $$$$ I know the odor gets better with penicillin but the horse can not stay on antibiotics forever he is eating good no fever just his cough and bad odor
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Lee
Member
Username: paul303

Post Number: 1403
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

So he has the malodor from the nostrils, but no fever, no lung sounds and no nasal discharge? He is eating fine and his behavior is normal? AND he's been through a decent course of antibiotics and his teeth have been checked. His bloodwork is OK. Can you describe the cough and the bad odor for us? What does it smell like? The odor is definitely from the nostrils?

Gee, Carrie, you've been diligent in covering all the bases. "Bad odor", most likely, indicates an infection...necrotic tissue. But it doesn't look as though anything stood out enough to spark a solid diagnosis from your vet. Bummer.

This means, that you can pursue repeated testing with your vet...or decide to take your horse to a university or clinic ( which is,sometimes, not as expensive as you think ) where, with better equipment, you might have a chance of a better diagnosis, or.......you might just have to wait and see if something "blows up", which will point toward a diagnosis.

You're obviously keeping a close watch on your boy, which is important. Is there any chance that you could fill out your profile a bit so we know a little more about your horse...like location, feed, turnout...? You never know exactly what is or isn't relevant. In the meantime, hang on, most of us here have spent a lot of time where you are now.

Good luck, and please, keep us informed.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24414
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Using the information provided so far I still think a primary or secondary sinusitis is possible but to nail this down a bit is the nasal discharge coming from one side or both? What is its character and does the discharge itself stink. You have added one new piece of information and that is your horse has a cough, this might be more consistent with a lower airway problem....

If you continue to think some form of pneumonia or pleuropneumonia is the problem and you cannot afford further diagnostics the only alternative I see is another prolonged course of a different antibiotic.

Lee does a good job of summing up my feelings on this: that a second opinion would be helpful and I would recommend a referral institution.
DrO
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Tiina Kirjava
New Member
Username: tupsu

Post Number: 1
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, Apr 30, 2010 - 5:23 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Here´s vet´s report from a 2yo horse that is now back to vet cause of bad smell and heavy breathing once again, no one knows what is wrong with him: (and please excuse bad english, is not my mother language)

February

-Strange smell coming from nostrils
- No significant snotting, at some point there has come a bit of snot from left nostril
-Scoops of maxillary sinus are dry
-A fair amount of resilient slime in windpipe
-Root area of teeth has been x rayed, no findings
-The horse is given Metronidatsol 17 tablets twice a day

February the 15th

The horse started to have symptoms on December the 3rd. Has excreted slime and rotten secretion from nostrils.Vet has visited him on Wednesday and fever has risen on Thursday to over 40C/104F and has continues despite medication.Metronidazol started on Wednesday, Metacam on Friday. Bad smell from nostrils. When leaving to vet´s he was unwilling to move, had muscle cramps and the skin was sore when touched. Has urinated alot, defecated a bit less than normally. Eaten and drunk a bit.

General appearance silent, "hr52","rr16", breathing sound accented especially on the right side. Temp 39,4C.Has defecated once.

General examination was done plus some blood samples where infection rate "fibrinogen" was strongly high 7,9g/L. In rektum examination nothing abnormal. fluid samle was taken abdominal cavity, it was normal.

In upper airways nothing abnormal.In the beginning of thw windpipe there was a lot of thick, yellow putrid. Through windpipe a steril sample of slime was take. X rays were taken from chest cavity. In lugns a strong "interstitiell" and "peribronkiell" figure, possible singular abscesses could not be seen.

A broad variety of antibiotics were started(penisillin-gentamysin, metronidatsoli) plus infection pain medication. Antibiotics were also given through steam breathing for 5 days. Genereal appearance was better but he still had fever, infection rate on Feb 18th 8.1g/L. Antibiotics was changed to Tetrasyclin. While waiting for results of culture, antibiotics were changed once again to Sulfa-Metronidatsol.

Windpipe was seen once again on Tuesday the 23rd, nothing abnormal.On the same day the horse did not defecate and had symptoms of bloating. No constipation was found.He was given magnesiumsulphate and water, liquefaction was continued all Tuesday. In the evening the horse had pains. The liquefaction was given through veins, also lidokaiini, a pain med, was given to veins. A sample was taken from abdominal cavity, it was normal.

The situation calmed down in few days and he started to defecate normally on Friday the 26th.Blood smaples were taken, infection fibrinogen 5.0. Metronidatsoli was left out but on Mon the 1st March the fibrinogen was higher again, s o Metronidatsoli was taken back to medication. In the lugns the xrays showed still strong alterations, but a change to better was seen.

Lab test results:1st March
fibr5.7
WBC 10.20 10^3/mm^3
RBC 08.098 10^6/mm^3
HGB 11.85 g/dl
HCT 33,79 %
LYM% 28.40 %
MON% 06,00 %
GRA 65,60 %

Metronidasol 2o tablets three times a day for two weeks
Oriprim 140g twice a day for two weeks
Metacam as told in the evenings, horse weighs 550kgs.



April 6th

Started to smell again from nostrils. Did that during medication also but has gotten weorse since medication en´ded last Tuesday. Morning tetmp 37,5, eveings 38,5. Eats, drinks ok.

Horse is a bit nerous, heart beat 48, hfr 24, breathing sound s a bit oversone, temp 37.9. Lymph node under chin ok, no snot.Percussion of sinuses normal. General appearance fair quite ok.

In lugn cx rays a lot of white, resilient slime in trachea. No specific source of slime was found."airbags" normal. Nothing abnormal in mouth or in teeth. X rays were sent to France. Blood samples normal. During evenings the horses temp rose to fever, otherwise the horse was ok.

Lab tests
fib 3,56g/L
WBC 06.06 10^3/mm^3
RBC 07,95 10^&/mm^3
HGB 11,16 g/dl
HCT 33,61 %
MCV 00042 fl
MCH 14.04 pg
MCHC 33.22 g/dl
RDW 18,31 %
PLT 00190 10^3/mm^3
MPV 05.10 fl
LYM% 42,40
MON% 08,20
GRA% 49,40
LYM 02,50 10^3/mm^3

There was a mass found behind his heart but no one knows what it is. Now they are saying he will basicly die. ANYONE, please, HELP????
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Shannon
Member
Username: stek

Post Number: 598
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, Apr 30, 2010 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Tiina, so sorry to hear about your horse. I can only guess at the cause, it sounds like you are receiving extensive veterinary care. Excessive discharge from the nostrils would point to some kind of infection I would think .. hopefully Dr. O will weigh in.
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Vicki Z
Member
Username: vickiann

Post Number: 1974
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Friday, Apr 30, 2010 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dr. O will have to answer this one but I do sincerely hope that you will be able to find some answers for your horse's difficulties.
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Tiina Kirjava
New Member
Username: tupsu

Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Saturday, May 1, 2010 - 2:38 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

A small piece of wood was found from his lugns and now he has a chance to recover,once they know the reason!!:-)Thanks everyone!
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24731
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Saturday, May 1, 2010 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Welcome Tiina,
Delighted this has all straightened out. Was the mass that was seen on radiography the piece of wood? I presume it has either been removed surgically or endoscopically? I would love to have a bit more detail.
DrO
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Vicki Z
Member
Username: vickiann

Post Number: 1977
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Saturday, May 1, 2010 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Wonderful news, Tina!
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