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Discussion on 8% Betadine solution
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Member:
Brnrat
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 8:19 pm:
Dr. O. Where does one find 8% Betadine (povidone iodine)as mentioned in your article on thrush. Is it the same as gentle iodine? I think I saw a bottle at the tack store that said gentle iodine which was 7% but it was not povidone iodine. Please clarify, thanks very much.
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Member:
Eoeo
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 9:28 pm:
7% IS NOT gentle iodine such as you would use on foal navels. The 7% is the STRONG iodine that would be used on the foot possibly for thrush. Please correct me if I am wrong. EO
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 6:31 am:
You can get the Betadine at the drug store Kristie. Betadine is a 8% solution of povidone-iodine. I am uncertain what they may label as gentle iodine but you should be able to get the ingredients off the bottle. Have you got exposed sensitive (bleeding) tissue?
Note that we have moved away from both iodine and povidone-iodine for dipping navels: chlorhexidine is clearly superior and the particulars are in the article on neonatal care.
DrO
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Member:
Brnrat
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 12:16 pm:
Just read the labels on Betadine and they state as follows:
Betadine solution = povidone iodine 5% equal to 0.5 available iodine.
Betadine surgical scrub = povidone iodine 7.5% equal to .75 available iodine
So I would want to purchase the scrub rather than the solution for treatment of thrush.
The farrier discovered the thrush during trimming and wanted me to continue treatment. He did not say anything about bleeding tissues and I did not note any pain or bleeding on cleaning out his sulci yesterday. Farrier recommended Betadine with DMSO. Any comments?
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 12:19 pm:
DrO, are there any advantages of povidone-iodine over 0.05% chlorhexidine as a surgical scrub or wound lavage solution?
The only contraindication for chlorhexidine I can find is when articular cartilage is exposed. Is that correct?
Why are we holding on to Betadine so dearly?
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 12:37 pm:
Kirstie, I use 10% formaldehyde for thrush and it works wonders.
Keep in mind, however, that you can't use it if sensitive tissue is exposed and that some horses really hate the smell.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 5:17 pm:
Let's see first it looks like I have the wrong concentration for the Betadine in the article Kirstie. I will double check this and what is over the counter will be fine. You do not want to use scrub, the soapy nature might be a little gooey. The 2% chlorhexidine solution would be a good substitute.
However since it does not sound like sensitive tissue is exposed you can use the stronger treatments which do include strong iodine and formaldehyde.
DrO
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Member:
Chohler
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 5:30 pm:
I have always wondered about using formaldehyde for feet, I work around it all day anyways, does it harden the foot to much though? I have gotten it on my skin accidentally and it hardened instantly. Course I'm not sure what the percentage is I use I shall have to go look.
Please be very careful of the vapors christos, it can destroy your sense of smell. You should wear a dust mask or a bandana across your nose or make sure your up wind. 10% isn't bad but just use caution.
Formaldehyde and iodine are in demand for druggies so make sure to keep it in secure places. I had a high percentage iodine stollen from the barn.....go figure.
Do we just hang on to betadine instead of chlohex because of cost? It is alittle more money out here, course I haven't looked at the dilution ratio, cost comparison.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 7:09 pm:
Thanks for the warning, Cheryl, I always wear latex gloves and keep my face away when handling formaldehyde.
It does harden (dehydrate) hooves, but it kills thrush so effectively that frequent treatment is unnecessary. I haven't used it more than three days in a row may be once a month or so and I only apply it to the frog and sole with a soft brush. The sole hardens a bit, but nothing really significant. I don't know what would happen with more frequent treatment.
I am thinking that applying it to the wall may damage the periople and dry the wall too much, I wouldn't do it.
PS: I wish they'd steal just the formaldehyde, I'm still missing my eventing saddle....
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 7:23 am:
We have an article on Formaldehyde that includes the MDS on it, Equine Medications and Nutriceuticals » Antibiotics and Antimicrobials » Formaldehyde and Formalin Use.
For the bottom of the feet I don't usually dilute and just use them straight out of the bottle, particularly with Betadine. Betadine, like regular iodine, evaporates over time. Chlorhexidine does not so dilution to the standard wound care concentration of 0.5% (1 part Nolvasan to 3 parts water) would probably be just as effective.
DrO
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Member:
Brnrat
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Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 11:57 am:
I did find a generic Betadine solution at the drug store which contained 10% povidone iodine. Is that too strong to use?
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Member:
Bobs
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Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 12:49 pm:
Dear Friends:
The iodine discussion;
a/ Betadine or povidone iodine is an aqueous based, gentle, iodine for direct use right on wounds.It is labeled as 10% povidone idoine which contains an iodine concentration of 1%. This is safe right out of the bottle.
b/The Betadine Surgical Scrub is betadine with soap. If there is an area that needs to be cleaned this would be your choice. As a soak, although this could be used , the preference would be the Betadine solution.
c/ Iodine Solution, Iodine tincture, and strong iodine solution are not what the Dr.O is aking for. They contain alcohol and either must be diluted or used differently
So as a general statement use the Povidone iodine 10%(1%iodine)straight out of the bottle for a gentle cure of thrush.
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Member:
Brnrat
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Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 12:12 pm:
Thank you very much for your explanation of the Betadine question re percentages. My farrier did recommend mixing Betadine with DMSO. Could someone comment on what that would add to the treatment.
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Member:
Bobs
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Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 1:33 pm:
Dear Kristie:
Bottom line; try the straight
Betadine first
The DMSO will definitely help with penetration of any material so the iodine will be more available and it will work better, but it will probably dry out the hoof and make it more brittle over time.
So the DMSO will help the Betadine to work but at what cost to the hoof? I will leave this for Dr. O to comment on.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 8:32 am:
Thanks Bob for the betadine help, I was unable to get by a drugstore to check the numbers and I use a generic.
I have never seen betadine mixed with DMSO and it would worry me. Though betadine is mild it is far from physiologically neutral if it penetrates to the corium over time I am uncertain as to the results.
DrO
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Member:
Brnrat
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Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 8:33 pm:
Used Betadine solution with no further thrush problem at this time. Would it be wise to use Betadine prophylactically say 1x or 2x per week? My gelding's feet pack up with manure regularly even though his stall is cleaned and his feet picked several times a day. My barnmates warn that Betadine can be very drying to the foot and cause cracking which then become portals for infection.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 5:02 am:
It depends on the hoof and the environment, Kristie.
If it is already dry enough, Betadine twice a week may dry it too much.
Generally, if his hooves are picked twice a day and his stall is dry, once a week in wet weather or twice a month in the summer should be enough.
But I wouldn't follow a regular schedule, I think it is not necessary. Simply, when you see the first signs of thrush, treat it until it is gone. Sometimes this will be once a week, sometimes once a month or more.
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