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Guy Ramsey
Member
Username: gramsey1
Post Number: 29
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 4, 2009 - 9:29 am: |   |
We purchased this guy at auction in Late May 2009. He was headed to slaughter. During his 4 week quarantine, he was moving stiffly but able to walk trot and canter. It looked like he needed sometime off. Maybe a place to retire, but not slaughter.
We put shoes on. Last week the farrier replaced them. He used a hoof tester checking of abscess or some reason for his slight limp. Since that day he as barely been able to walk. So, we called in the Vet to have him tested. A block in the heel helped him quite a bit. A block low in front and he was able to walk and trot without a limp.
X-rays: |
Angie KJ
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 31
Registered: 6-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 4, 2009 - 10:49 am: | |
Nice looking horse!
I always start with the hoofs, and barefoot. Can you post some good shots from the side showing whole body view?
Others are more experienced than me, but it's a good starting point, plus if you can get your x-rays to show here, DrO can comment on those. |
Guy Ramsey
Member
Username: gramsey1
Post Number: 30
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 4, 2009 - 10:49 am: | |
x-rays:
I can see these are not images of a healthy hoof.
But, wonder, could a hoof tester aggravate the condition?
We gave him a steroid injection. To relieve his pain.
We had considering a regimen of Naproxen and therapeutic doses of Glucosamine and Chondroitin.
It seems that the article on Dosages is difficult to implement. It seems the dose depends on the product.
Has there been any new results that provide guidance?
Based on these X-rays, are we wasting our time? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23350
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 4, 2009 - 11:19 pm: | |
Among the many abnormalities the most important is the radiographs are clear for DJD of the coffin joint or what is often called low ringbone. No the hoof testers did not aggravate it, I suspect flexion of the joint during the exam did. You will find much information on this condition and what to expect at Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Lower Limb » Ringbone.
If I understand your question about dosages, you will find the current recommended dosages of glucosamine and chondroitin at Treatments and Medications for Horses » Anti-inflammatories (NSAIDs, Steroids, Arthritis Rx) » Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulfate, and their use in Arthritis.
DrO |
LL
Member
Username: frances
Post Number: 899
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 5, 2009 - 9:24 am: | |
Could it be something as simple as nail bind (a "hot" nail)? |
Guy Ramsey
Member
Username: gramsey1
Post Number: 31
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 5, 2009 - 10:50 am: | |
Dr. Oglesby's reading of the images is the same as our local Vet's. Blue (horse's barn name) was a rescue, our personal expectations end at learning what this horse has to teach us. Our efforts are aimed at making him comfortable. He will tell us what he can do.
We started Blue on a loading dose of Naproxen, as we hope we will do well enough to need to be on this for a long time. We purchased a 360 tablet supply (500 mg)for $18.60, www.healthwarehouse.com. They had no problem with veterinary prescriptions.
Now we are looking at supplements and hoof trims. Our farrier shortened the toe rolled the shoe and added 2 degrees of wedge with a gel pad between the wedge and the sole. The next day he could not put weight on the foot . . . He has been very lame since.
Now we are thinking barefoot, boots and padded inserts. Thoughts?
Dr. O, have you seen the fairly recent study on MSM, “The effect of methyl sulphonyl methane supplementation on biomarkers of oxidative stress in sport horses following jumping exercise,” was published in the Nov. 7, 2008, edition of the journal Acta Veterinaria Scandinavica?
The only product I could find with the higher levels of GL, 12.5 grams per dose, also contained 10 grams of MSM per dose. The article on this site recognizes no benefit to the horse. The study seems to suggest that it may help prevent inflammation post trauma. Probably too late for this guy.
Comments, experiences? |
Julie Masner
Member
Username: juliem
Post Number: 583
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 5, 2009 - 11:59 am: | |
Just wanted to say thanks for taking this horse and giving him a chance. He looks as if he deserves it (of course they all do)and I'm very thankful for people like you. |
Guy Ramsey
Member
Username: gramsey1
Post Number: 32
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 5, 2009 - 5:50 pm: | |
Julie,
Everyone who has stood next to him feels the same as you.
Blue watching the vet set-up the x-ray equipment. |
Jo Ann Widner
Member
Username: jowidner
Post Number: 505
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 5, 2009 - 6:04 pm: | |
He has such a noble face. I hope you are able to find the key to the management that will keep him comfortable. |
leslie645
Member
Username: leslie1
Post Number: 882
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 5, 2009 - 7:14 pm: | |
I am in love with that soulful face! give him a carrot from me
L
I was going to post earlier about the first pic of him getting his xrays...aboout what a sweet expression and then thought to myself "Awww, hes probably all tranq'ed out for the xrays" But the 2nd pic confirms his sweet soul |
rtrotter
Member
Username: rtrotter
Post Number: 287
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 5, 2009 - 8:24 pm: | |
Guy,
I can not read xrays to save my life, but I couldn't help feeling that this horse's foot was out of balance (from Image 3/6). I can't tell if its the way his foot is positioned on the plate, but he sure looks lopsided to me.
I would get his shoes off and get him back in balance ( to me he looks low on the outside and high on the inside. I'd be able to tell better if I could see the foot from the bottom to see which way the frog is leaning. I'd try to keep him as simple as possible at least for a few days to see how he handles being barefoot.
To me he has a worried look on his face especially around his eyes, probably from the pain in his foot. If you can get his feet straightened out, I'm sure that look will go away and he may become a serviceable horse once again.
Good luck with him and bless you for rescuing him.
Rachelle |
Lilo
Member
Username: lilo
Post Number: 1166
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 6, 2009 - 10:36 am: | |
Guy, I want to add my wishes for good luck! Such a nice horse, I hope he can become comfortable. Lilo |
elk
Member
Username: ekaufman
Post Number: 1045
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 6, 2009 - 4:40 pm: | |
Hi Guy,
Good on you, and glad you don't have great ambitions for this horse performance-wise. He looks like he feels lucky!
One of the performance-oriented clinics near me has been doing a new procedure for horses with low ringbone. I'm going to get this wrong, but they freeze the nerves that traverse the pastern. As with a neurectomy, there is a serious downside, but they have apparently had good success relieving the pain associated with low ringbone. Probably pricey-- I didn't ask.
I like the firocoxib (previcox) for ringbone pain. Don't know how it compares to naproxen-- they are both COX2s. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23354
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 7, 2009 - 7:40 am: | |
Guy throwing MSM at a serious case of DJD is a waste of time and money. I would recommend the treatment plan in the article referenced above and in the article on arthritis in general.
As rtrotter noted above the horse is either standing oddly or the foot is unbalanced from side to side in the above radiographs, careful management of balance and breakover could help this horse be as comfortable as possible.
DrO |
Guy Ramsey
Member
Username: gramsey1
Post Number: 34
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 - 12:26 am: | |
Our farrier told us that we was really troubled by this case and told us that he was not sure his approach would help.
In response to rtrotter, and my own interest in the work of KC La Pierre I located a barefoot trimmer by searching their website. We found a woman in NJ who after looking at the X-rays via email said she was interested in this difficult and interesting case.
She requested we soak his foot for 15 minutes a day in a 50% water dilution of Apple Cider Vinegar. She said it would work like Epson Salts to draw out any infection without hardening his hoof sole.
Monday through Thursday we did. 5:30 PM, Thursday the 9th,she watched our pathetic Blue limp to the grooming stall. She explained what she saw and started to balance his foot. Blue was nuzzling her as she worked. Suddenly, her arm was wet, then the stall mat. She stopped and looked to see what was up . . . Is he drooling? Where is this water coming from? Then we smelled it, a watery smelly abscess, oozing from between the sole and hoof wall.
"I hoped that would happen," she said.
She pulled his other front shoe, same nasty smell. At which point she recommended we treat him with CleanTrax (Oxyclorsine or Clorpactin).
We didn't have a soaking boot and a spare hour and a half so the soak had to wait.
Today, only 24 hours after the abscess was released, he walked without a limp from his pasture to the grooming stall, for his soak.
He is more comfortable and the worried look is gone.
We soaked his feet in the reconstituted snakeoil (CleanTrax)45 minutes per foot.
It was interesting. About 15-20 minutes into each soak he got this funny look on his face and he started licking and chewing like something was stuck in is teeth. The behavior lasted a couple of minutes and stopped. Once on each foot.
We know he has a ton of trouble. We only X-rayed his feet because of the brewing abscess. His other front is probably just as bad. And is back hurts. But, his acute bout of pain is over.
Oh, and thanks ELK; for the pain reliever advise. Very interesting information on this product on the web. We may switch to it. Though, he seems to be tolerating the Naproxen well, if it helps, he must have been in great pain.
Thoughts? |
Guy Ramsey
Member
Username: gramsey1
Post Number: 35
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 - 12:28 am: | |
Do the images suggest that the side bone has broken off? |
rtrotter
Member
Username: rtrotter
Post Number: 295
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 - 7:03 am: | |
Guy,
You do not know how glad your post made me. I am also a KC LaPierre fan and use a certified DAEP trimmer on my horses in NJ as well. I am glad that worried look is gone from his face. The licking and chewing is a sign that "you hit the spot( or spots)" and you are going in the right direction. My horses do this when they get worked on by the chiropractor, accupunctucturist and massage therapist ( never by the vet) and when they begin to think (left brain)as when the connection is made that the person working with them has finally figured out how to communicate with them.
You might find that after his feet get fixed, he may no longer need the medication and he will remain sound without it.
The thing I like about KC La Pierre's methods over any other trim is that attention at the foot level seems to straighten out the boney column and over time fixes a lot of problems that may not have been fixed otherwise without a ton of expense. I look at it like a chiropractor for feet.
I wish you a lot of good luck and a happy healthy horse. Give Blue a kiss and a carrot for me.
Rachelle |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23378
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 - 7:09 am: | |
No Guy it does not indicate it. Though we cannot say for sure this is a common appearance of a focal area of calcification for more on this see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Side Bone and the Collateral Cartilages.
DrO |
Angie KJ
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 43
Registered: 6-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 - 8:56 am: | |
Guy,
I am so happy to read about to read the good results!
I hope with the hoof issues resolving, the back pain will resolve too.
He's a sweetie, give him a horsey hug from me, and please post a few more pics of him moving around painfree. |
Fran C
Member
Username: canter
Post Number: 2089
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 - 9:42 am: | |
Guy, I will keep my fingers crossed that you've found and resolved the problem.
Sending another "Thank you" to you for rescuing this horse! |
Lilo
Member
Username: lilo
Post Number: 1170
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 - 9:42 am: | |
Good news! Hoping for continued improvement - Lilo |
Julie Masner
Member
Username: juliem
Post Number: 585
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 - 11:41 am: | |
Whew! That instant relief must have felt sooo good to him and I bet it did to you too! |
Guy Ramsey
Member
Username: gramsey1
Post Number: 50
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 6, 2009 - 6:35 pm: | |
Blue is running in a huge pasture turnout 24/7.
He is so much better.
 |
Guy Ramsey
Member
Username: gramsey1
Post Number: 51
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 6, 2009 - 6:40 pm: | |
and so transparent
 |
Erika L
Member
Username: erika
Post Number: 1846
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 6, 2009 - 9:49 pm: | |
What a gorgeous, noble face. Best wishes for continuing improvement. Thanks for taking him on.
Erika |
leslie645
Member
Username: leslie1
Post Number: 939
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Friday, Aug 7, 2009 - 10:38 am: | |
I love this horse.
im sooo glad he is better...good job Guy! |
KATHLEEN WHEAT
Member
Username: kathleen
Post Number: 833
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Aug 7, 2009 - 10:44 am: | |
You are to be commended for saving this horse and standing by him when many others wouldn't/couldn't. I don't have the words to tell you how important and wonderful it is, what you did.
Kathleen |
Cindy O'DELL
Member
Username: zarr
Post Number: 1420
Registered: 6-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Aug 7, 2009 - 11:53 am: | |
Guy a friend of mine pulled a mare litterally off the slaughter truck that could be Blues sister! Her feet went thru almost the same problems.Today she is a very well and happy horse to say nothing of very well loved! Thank goodness you found him he will repay you many times over! |
Guy Ramsey
Member
Username: gramsey1
Post Number: 64
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 9, 2009 - 4:09 pm: | |
Just thought you all might like to see. We are starting back to work. Hoping to reach sound under saddle for light pleasure rides.
 |
Guy Ramsey
Member
Username: gramsey1
Post Number: 65
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 9, 2009 - 4:11 pm: | |
He is walking funny because it is a really steep hill. |
Erika L
Member
Username: erika
Post Number: 1998
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 9, 2009 - 5:43 pm: | |
Well, he looks absolutely gorgeous and so happy! What a mitzvah! Thanks for the update.
Erika |
Lee
Member
Username: paul303
Post Number: 1356
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Oct 10, 2009 - 12:02 am: | |
Beautiful horse, Guy, and wonderful outcome. I'd like to echo elk on the previcox (firocoxib). My QH mare ( in reining in the eighties )was diagnosed navicular in the later eighties. She's been on bute since with some "vacations" here and there where possible. Three years ago, we added yearly joint injections which were a great help. Last spring, after reading about previcox on this site, I asked the vet and she was ammenable to prescribing the canine medication.
On the previcox, there was no need for the joint injections. She's comfortable in front...and sound without injections.
So far, we're lovin' that previcox.
Looks like you've bought yourself a kind soul in Blue, with superior coping abilities. A gem of a horse. |
Angie KJ
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 273
Registered: 6-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, Oct 10, 2009 - 7:15 am: | |
Wonderful to see Blue doing so much better. He is looking great! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23894
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Oct 10, 2009 - 8:39 am: | |
I am delighted to see Blue doing so much better Guy. I believe you have successfully treated underlying correctable problems, certainly a foot abscess and possibly hoof imbalance, allowing the horse to become very comfortable. However take it very slow with forced work as the radiographs above strongly suggest that the horses lameness, osteoarthritis of the coffin joint, will be progressive over the long run.
DrO |
Fran C
Member
Username: canter
Post Number: 2187
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Oct 10, 2009 - 10:03 am: | |
Great news, Guy. Blue looks wonderful. Best wishes for continues success with him. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 5401
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Oct 10, 2009 - 11:10 am: | |
I love this guy! I'm thrilled you rescued him and are doing so well with him. He looks like a lovely fellow with lots of dignity. |
Lilo
Member
Username: lilo
Post Number: 1249
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Oct 10, 2009 - 11:42 am: | |
Guy - this is so great to hear! Good luck with him. Lilo |
