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landj
New Member
Username: landj
Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, Aug 29, 2009 - 8:25 am: |   |
Hi there, I have read some articles about bentonite for sand colic prevention. Will you please give me your thoughts? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23637
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 30, 2009 - 2:49 pm: | |
Hello landj,
I do not know of any scientific evidence that bentonite clay will more rapidly clear sand than the natural process.
DrO |
Vicki Z
Member
Username: vickiann
Post Number: 1361
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 30, 2009 - 3:59 pm: | |
By holistic thinkers, the clay is more often used to cleanse toxins out of the system post worming or medication use, but not as a digestive aid.
I am not voicing an opinion about this use one way or the other but some believe it beneficial when used that way. |
Angie KJ
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 135
Registered: 6-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 30, 2009 - 4:54 pm: | |
I take a bentonite product for keeping "regular." It's supposed to be great for detoxing. I usually take it in a liquid form and also take another powder colon product at the same time. I've done that off and on for years, don't know if I have any sand in me or not, lol!
Seriously, in the info I've read, they claim cattle go to areas where there is lots of the assorted clays and eat the stuff when they are sick.
Could you post some links to what you've read about it for horses? I am curious what is being said.
I don't think it would hurt, but might not do anything other than drain your check book. |
landj
New Member
Username: landj
Post Number: 4
Registered: 6-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, Sep 2, 2009 - 5:59 pm: | |
Thanks everyone. Sorry I don't have any links I had just typed in the search words colic prevention (I believe) and that along with the psyllium came up. I had never heard of it, but landed on some forum where people swore by it so thought I would ask. I think it is cheaper than psyllium although it appears neither are proven. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23669
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 3:00 am: | |
Actually landj one very good experiment has found that psyllium is no more effective at moving sand than a regular forage based diet. Is it proof it does not work, I am not willing to go that far but it strongly suggests if there is a effect it is likely small.
DrO |
landj
New Member
Username: landj
Post Number: 5
Registered: 6-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 5:22 am: | |
Hi Dr. O. I was referring to that experiment when I stated it was not proven. But, you are saying you would not go that far. Well then, if your horses were boarded in sandy runs would you give them psyllium even though you state the effects are small if any or ???? Thanks! |
Patricia Ellis
Member
Username: pellis
Post Number: 22
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 8:43 am: | |
landj - I had a mare that had surgery due to sand colic at age 18. The sand had formed into a hard ball about the size of a grapefruit and had displaced her colon 180 degrees. The surgeon told me in a post op conversation that about 2 percent of horses will suffer with sand colic. In other words if you put 100 horses in a field and feed them all the same thing, in the same amounts, 2 would eventually colic due to sand build up. She also said that it can take years for it to be a problem, but the system of each horse is different. She told me that since this mare had a history of it, I should use psyllium, but that there was NO proof it would keep the sand cleared out. As a result, I fed that mare psyllium every day, but never fed it to any other horse that was kept in the same area. About 2 years later when she had another bout of colic they found about 2 Tbsps. of sand in her intestine – not the cause of the colic. And a year after that she still had about 2 Tbsps. of sand in her intestine – found after another colic episode. Was the psyllium working? No one knows. Maybe it was keeping the amount under control or maybe it just hadn’t been long enough for the build-up of sand to occur again. My feeling is that if a horse has a history of sand colic, use the psyllium every day. If there is no history, just assume they are doing fine and don’t worry about it. But, you can still take certain steps to help avoid sand ingestion when they are kept in a sandy area such as feeding hay off the ground or if on the ground, fed off a mat that is swept free of sand before each feeding. |
Vicki Z
Member
Username: vickiann
Post Number: 1371
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 10:45 am: | |
In the area where I live horses die every year of sand colic.
I use a psyllium product one week a month every month for all of my horses.
I believe there is a new product that contains psyllium and a probiotic that is supposed to have a better showing in study results.
My feed contains a probiotic so I feel that I have that covered too.
There is no practical way that I can prevent my horses from ingesting some sand while they are turned out.
Feeding plenty of forage is very important to keeping the horses' system cleared of sand. |
andym
Member
Username: andym
Post Number: 40
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 3:00 pm: | |
landj
Bentonite - my only experience with bentonite has been in construction where, because it reportedly absorbs seven times its own volume of water, we used it to plug leaks in small dams and tunnels.
I'm curious as to how bentonite works to clear sand colic. Any links to the articles on that ?
andym |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23673
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 4:08 am: | |
Right landj, there IS evidence that psyllium does NOT work. There are also less well conducted experiments that found a small effect in some horses. I would say neither is the last word but I find the first study more compelling. Personally I direct my efforts at outlined in the article on Sand Colic.
Vicki, there is no work to support that adding probiotics will help the sand clearing effects of psyllium nor can I think of a possible mechanism for that action.
DrO |
Vicki Z
Member
Username: vickiann
Post Number: 1372
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 8:13 am: | |
Dr. O,
Here is the link for the product that I had read about, which contains "synbiotics" and psyllium, and they are claiming success in research studies, but I've not read the study.
A particular Doctor is mentioned:
http://emsvet.com/newsletters/digestive/assure-products.html |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23681
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 7, 2009 - 11:25 am: | |
Hmmm increases sand removal 600%? Research showing psyllium the most effect sand removing treatment?
Since horses normally clear sand at 15% a day with no treatment they imply their product will remove...90% of all sand with one treatment? I do not find their statements plausible or truthful but I guess we have to wait until Feb. to see what they mean when they say studies will be published.
DrO |
Vicki Z
Member
Username: vickiann
Post Number: 1382
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 8, 2009 - 7:34 am: | |
Here is a side bar about this product from an article from "The Horse."
New Psyllium Product
A research group from Colorado led by Allen Landes, DVM, owner of Equine Medical Service in Fort Collins, published a study in the February 2008 Journal of Equine Veterinary Science, in which they examined probiotic and prebiotic use in conjunction with psyllium. The idea behind this was that sand in the tract produces irritation and might lead to decreased gastrointestinal (GI) motility, which can lead to impaction. As the motility slows, digestion suffers and the microbe population in the hindgut (large intestine and cecum) is altered. This has a negative effect on digestion and motility and circles in a vicious cycle.
The researchers added probiotics, which are some of the normal, helpful microbes that must be present at proper levels in the hindgut for optimum digestion and breakdown of fibrous material (see page 43). These microbes help normalize gut motility, which could help move sand on through the GI tract. Due to this research, manufacturers created a new product combining psyllium and probiotics in a pelleted form to be given in feed. When researchers fed this combination, fecal sand output (measured by typical flotation tests) increased significantly by Day 4 of supplementation and remained significantly increased through Day 31, so the assumption was that these horses were eliminating more sand.
Jay Altman, DVM, of Equine Research Associates in Fort Collins, Colo., was instrumental in developing the new product, which is called Assure Plus. In his practice he always had client horses with sand colic, but he started looking at the problem more seriously in 2002. Colorado was in severe drought, with horses grazing pastures more closely. "I had a lot of horses on psyllium, yet was sending some to CSU (Colorado State) for colic surgery, and they all had sand," says Altman. "I had to find a better protocol for getting sand out of these horses.
"I decided to try a mix of products and started blending other things with psyllium with good results," he continues. "In 2005 I had a larger number of sand colics again, possibly due to the dry year, and that fall started using my combination again and decided it should be made into a marketable product."
--Heather Smith Thomas
Here is the link for the entire article: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=14009 |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23687
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 8, 2009 - 8:48 am: | |
Vicki, I continue to see no objective evidence for the claims. As with the psyllium, the probiotic claims of a well established beneficial effect exaggerated, see Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Horse Feeds, Feeding » Probiotics and Yeast Culture Products for more on this.
So we will have to wait to see the research that supports their...ummm...remarkable claims.
DrO |
Vicki Z
Member
Username: vickiann
Post Number: 1383
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 8, 2009 - 9:14 am: | |
I too would like to see the details of the study as I found the claims to be pretty amazing. |
landj
Member
Username: landj
Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 8, 2009 - 8:55 pm: | |
Thank you everyone for all of the responses. Andym no, I found no studies, that's why I came hear to see if anyone knew anything. Interesting that it is a binding agent. For some reason it says it works on human colic. Again no studies. At our stable of about 40 horses very few colic, 1 has died from colic. The horses that do colic tend to be older which makes me think that it is build up over time. We do have boxes they eat out of but ofcourse they move it into the sand sometimes. Sounds like the best idea is to put mats around the boxes to prevent sand ingestion. |
