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Discussion on Small round scabbed sores?

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jamie lenzner
New Member
Username: nito

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 15, 2009 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

There are scattered or intermittent scabs on the chest, neck, face, stomach and sides of my horse. They are small like the size of an eraser that are weepy or wet looking then dry out and scabs over with a yellowish crystalized scab. My horse had these bumps off an on at different degrees all spring, summer and fall. They go away but come back... now when it was spring, summer and fall I thought it was biting gnats or flies irritating him.. but now that it is winter I am getting worried. He doesn't itch and when you pull the scab off it leaves a perfect circle with pinkish whitish tissue and sometimes hair comes with it.

I also want to add my horse ia a paint and is photosensitive with the worst part being on his face (he only has a wide blaze with a snip and two neck spots.

I am having the vet out on dec 22 to draw blood, take a biopsy, and check him out. Some picture of the scabs are posted bellow. Just click on the link.....

http://i45.tinypic.com/24dppb6.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/fwosb9.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/wbdx06.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/1174fo5.jpg

what do you think? I just want some ideas to run by my vet.
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DianE
Member
Username: scooter

Post Number: 5496
Registered: 9-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 15, 2009 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Jamie, welcome to HA...if you fill out your profile it may help. Such as you de-worming practices, turnout situation ect.

My horses had something similar a few years back and when it went through the stage as in your second pic, I thought they had lice! I took some off, put it in jar and took it to the vet! He looked at it under a microscope and said No it wasn't lice eggs Shewww!

He said it was dermatophilus, I treated it as you would scratches or rain rot, tho it didn't look like either of them, and it went away pretty quickly. I used dermavet....generic version of panalog.

I'm sure your vet will know what it is when he sees it.
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jamie lenzner
New Member
Username: nito

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 15, 2009 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

sorry about that I just joined and posted the message. I didnt take to the time to fill it out but it is all filled out now.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24185
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 - 7:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Welcome jamie,
The images are not quite diagnostic for me as it is not clear how the irritated areas have become hairless. Does the hair come off clumped in the scab, which would be as Diane suggests Dermatophilus, or did the hair just fall out individually? In the latter case there are several possibilities with ringworm being at the top. We have articles on both of these diseases with further diagnostic and treatment information at Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Hair and Coat Problems / Itching / Irritated Skin.
DrO
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jamie
New Member
Username: nito

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 - 1:13 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thank for your reply…. Well it seems that the sores first show up with the hair already missing around the perimeter of the sore when I find them on him like in the photo. So the hair must come out individually. The only time hair would pull off was when I pulled off a scab and whatever hair that is on the out laying area of the sore seemed to have got stuck to the serum wet looking sore as it was drying causing it to pull off with the scab. He isn’t loosing hair any where else but just on the margins surrounding and on the sores. This summer when his coat was short I could see he had a little bump still lightly covered with hair where a sore would then appear. So my guess is they broke open. When they did break open like I said it looked like a serum or wet looking. Then as I would keep checking on it scabbed over turning to the crystallized yellow scab.

I checked the itching and irritated skin article but not the swelling and bump one.

Thanks again,
Jamie
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24188
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Dec 17, 2009 - 6:45 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I would certainly have him checked for ringworm. With your vets approval you could try treating with a OTC antifungal available from your local pharmacy for jock itch or athlete's foot. The reason to ask the veterinarian is that sometimes treatment can change the look of the biopsy making diagnosis a bit more difficult.
DrO
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jamie
New Member
Username: nito

Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Thursday, Dec 17, 2009 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks again Dr.O for your response. I am going to discuss this with my vet and as I was looking up information in the ringworm article I noticed it stated something about a staph folliculitis. I have been trying to research it on here and google and have not found much information concerning it. I was wondering if I could have your insight as to if not just ringworm but staph folliculitis should be thought into consideration as well?

Thanks again,
Jamie
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24192
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Dec 17, 2009 - 6:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Frankly Jamie, I have not ruled out dermatophilus yet, certainly a staph folliculitis is also possible. The appearance would not be characteristic as generally staph causes a more irregular widespread lesion but all these rules are broken by individual cases.

A treatment that might be effective against all these would be a 4% chlorhexidine solution sprayed on the erosions once the scabs have been removed but it is more likely to have effects on the biopsies character causing a mild inflammatory response is some cases. Again you could discuss this with your veterinarian.
DrO
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muffi delaney
New Member
Username: cometrdr

Post Number: 1
Registered: 2-2010
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have seen the same thing in one of my two geldings. Back in 2006 i noticed I posted the same thing. and nothing since then. but here it the rundown.
10 year old healthy gelding, good appetite, healthy looking coat, poop, gut sounds all good. A little bit sluggish lately (could be cause its getting warmer here) no change in food routine, same level of exercise.
had the Vet out to look at the 'sores' after the first outbreak about 6 weeks ago. He didn't think it was ringworm (although they look EXACTALY like Jamie's horse above)and he gave him a shot of Pennicellian (cant spell sorry) and they appeared to subside. Now they are back Dime shaped sore areas I noticed one started as a small lump on chest area - about the size of a marble under skin - thought it may of been a bug bite. When i gently rubbed it he was in heaven - I assumed it was itchy. Then it crusted over (assume it opens up then) and a dime or so sized area of fur falls off with a dried yellowish crust. all hair comes off at that time. When the Vet was out before he had me scrub the affected areas (there were 5 then and about 4 now) with a betadine solution and keep a dry Ferizone solution on it to heal it them. They heal fine when they 'pop'. they are all over - (the 4 now) on the neck, on the legs, the face and now one on the chest. I will try the Jock Itch stuff mentioned above but it does have me worried. Should I have Blood tests done to see if it is possibly something else? and this is an external symptom coming out? Yes I am worried. and Dr O this is Muffi Coming back - sorry when we moved back to AZ my membership lapsed.... good to be back on line again. - Muffi and Comet
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jamie
Member
Username: nito

Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Iam sorry to hear about your horses skin issues. I am still battling this problem as well. I had the vet out around christmas and she wanted me to do a betadine scrub on him in thought that it could be bacterial... however there is no possible way I can do this because it has been only 10 degrees for the last month with occasional 20 deg days. Its to hard to even try to begin to treat him because I do not have a heated barn to keep him warm after a bath or washing selected areas on his body. SO unfortunately I will have to wait until it warms up a tad to begin treatment.

Can you post pictures of yours?
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24512
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Feb 18, 2010 - 7:50 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

The problem is that there are several different problems that could look exactly like this though how they get there will be slightly different. Jamie, what is to keep you from spraying as directed above?
DrO
PS: Welcome back Muffi!
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jamie
Member
Username: nito

Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Thursday, Feb 18, 2010 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I was going to try the 4% chlorhexidine solution but then I found out about the betadine rinse from my vet... I had to order the 4% chlorhexidine solution so I did and until it arrived I decided to go ahead and start with the betadine solution instead of a betadine rinse since I had some on hand. Anyways I got 4 days of treatment on him and tried as best as I could to spot treat, but by the end he was covered in the solution bec there are quit a few little sores. He was shivering bec it was to cold out so as frustrated as I was because of that I decided to stop treatment until it warms up a tad.

Either option requires me to get him rather wet. Then to top it off he has a very thick winter coat and by the time I was done applying the solution he was a big wet soggy ball of hair. The lesions are about the size of an eraser and scattered though out his neck, chest, shoulders and front section of his back. My thought is he has had this issue all summer into fall and still now and it really hasnt changed a whole lot as far as spreading. So the plan is to wait until mid march bec it will be sooo much warmer.

Jamie
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muffi delaney
New Member
Username: cometrdr

Post Number: 3
Registered: 2-2010
Posted on Thursday, Feb 18, 2010 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

jamie your horse sounds worse then my boy - he has only about 5 spots running at any given time - today i counted 5 exactally. and to simply use the betadine rub on them is quite local and i sponge it off sparing the water some till its free of bubbles - when we had the 10 degree days. not its quite balmy 40 degrees so it's much easier to keep him clean. anyway I tooks some pics they didn't turn out as well as I had hoped. also pulled off a new one. Litterally it is an eraser sized clump of long hair attached to that neasty yellow scab. comes off quite easily as well. on this one it was in side the cannon bone down on the back leg. again very small, treated it with a cleanzing and some tea trea oil and some other oils (Vitiman E and some Skin oil I use for me too) seems to help the hair grow back quicker I think.
check out these pics see if they help some
one on chesttwo on face on on right older by a week
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muffi delaney
New Member
Username: cometrdr

Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2010
Posted on Thursday, Feb 18, 2010 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

hey Jamie - I just looked at your profile - we both feed flax seed - hmmmm I may try to stop that for a bit - see if it changes things.... I started that about the time we started seeing these scabbie things.

What do you think Dr O could this be a reaction to that? I like how the Flax Seed (ground) makes their coats look but there are many other things to use for that too.
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jamie
Member
Username: nito

Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Thursday, Feb 18, 2010 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

that is so interesting... I forgot to add my horse has 2 to 4 spots in his face as well. Are you going to have another opinion or the vet out again to look?
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24514
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Feb 18, 2010 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

It does not seem likely.
DrO
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Lee
Member
Username: paul303

Post Number: 1409
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Friday, Feb 19, 2010 - 2:13 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

My Appendix Mare has very tender skin. I had a few spots of dermatophilus that started right before Christmas. I had a pile of guests over Christmas ( 12 people for 6 days....aaaaahhkkk), and just couldn't spend time on her. Well, after everyone left, and I could take time to go over her....YIKES! It had spread over one side of her neck, both sides of her chest and between her front legs, back on the sides of her belly, gaskins and up underneath, and over her rump and down the back of her back legs.

My vet prescribed a product called ANIMAX. It has: Nystatin-neomycin sulfate-thiostrepton-triamcinolone acetonide ointment. The insert says that it's for skin afflictions in dogs and cats. It's expensive, but it worked. After a few days, it stopped spreading and began to recede. I removed the scabs, and treated the sores once a day. Sometimes, I scrubbed the affected areas with Betadine.....but heck, we've been breaking snow records here in NJ this winter, and it's been hard to treat in hip deep snow. I got rid of it in about 3 weeks, but after the last snowfall of 28 or more inches, I backed off. All the treated areas remained fine. 3 days ago, while brushing her, I found a new outbreak under her jowls. I've been treating it daily, and it's pretty much gone.
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muffi delaney
New Member
Username: cometrdr

Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2010
Posted on Friday, Feb 19, 2010 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Lee thats my problem too - I get them all under control and about 2 weeks a month goes by and they come back? I keep them really clean - and his pasture mate has no sign of them.
I'll try some full body wash on him when we get some warmer weather - but even only at 50 on a bright sunny day the water and the air is just not hot enough for a full lather scrub up on him either so its spot washes on the currently affected areas.
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muffi delaney
Member
Username: cometrdr

Post Number: 6
Registered: 2-2010
Posted on Friday, Feb 19, 2010 - 12:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh and Dr O - thanks for the update on Flax being ok. I love what it does for their Coats. my black arab has Dapples in the sun - he is so cute when he is clean. My big chestnut with the little scabs - he gets a dapple once he sheds out some. all from the flax seed I think!
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24518
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Saturday, Feb 20, 2010 - 8:45 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

No flax needed muffi, unlike humans and small animals the horse's need for nutritionally provided essential fatty acids is very low.

Keeping our fading blacks really black and our buckskin's palomino color, black points, and dapples a rich dark color consists of a simple formula: good forage, minimal (read that as no) use of shampoo, vigorous use of a brush before each ride, a thorough rinsing of sweaty areas after a ride, and avoiding the afternoon sun May through September. This works wonders on a coat with shiny deep rich colors year round. For more on this see Horse Care » Routine Horse Care » Hair Coat Care.
DrO
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