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Discussion on Lame with no heat, no swelling

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Nina Butler
New Member
Username: ninabutl

Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2010
Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 9:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have a 6 yr welsh pony, about 2 weeks ago, he went lame in his left front. We were at a show were there was a vet he did a quick exam, said the pony was body sore, and also suggested his coffin joints be injected, said he seemed sore when he rotated the hoof. The pony tested negative to the hoof testers, he is barefoot. I followed up on his recommendation had the pony chiropacted and coffin joints injected. Its now been another week and the pony is still just as lame about a 4/5 at the trot. There is no heat, no swelling, no pulse. Any ideas?
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Guy Ramsey
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Username: gramsey1

Post Number: 104
Registered: 8-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Nina,
Good. Your own discussion. Have your vet perform blocks to identify the location of the problem. Then you will be able to work on it.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24821
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Welcome Nina,
Guy is right, your description of the exams suggests these folks have not done due diligence on properly localizing and diagnosing the actual location and cause of lameness. And until that is done the proper treatment and prognosis remains unknown. For more on exactly how this is done see HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse.
DrO
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Nina Butler
New Member
Username: ninabutl

Post Number: 3
Registered: 5-2010
Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Has anyone heard of EPM being the reason behind these symptoms of lameness? I know EPM is neurological, but is was suggested earlier today as a possible cause? Has anyone ever heard of a link between this kind of lameness and EPM?
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DianE
Member
Username: scooter

Post Number: 6712
Registered: 9-2000
Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Nina I am going through this with my old mare, I'm ready to rip my hair out!! She became acutely lame on LF (which she bowed last year) about 6 weeks ago. She limps on LF but sometimes looks stiff all over. I can't find a spot of heat or unusual swelling for her anywhere. EPM has crossed my mind, though I THINK that is progressive and she seems no worse, and sometimes a little better. I don't think EPM is responsive to bute, is your pony any better if given bute?

I've decided I am going to lock her in a stall tomorrow and see if there is any improvement with complete stall rest, and no access to grass in case it is a mild case of laminitis. She gives me no hint what is wrong with her except she doesn't weight her LF heel when standing still sometimes.

Hope you figure it out, blocks are a good idea if your vet does them...mine doesn't.
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Nina Butler
New Member
Username: ninabutl

Post Number: 4
Registered: 5-2010
Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The show vet did give him a dose of Bute the day he went lame, and was no better later that nite or next day. The lady who suggested EPM to me, knows a great deal about the disease. She says she had a horse with these same symptons and she put the horse on a round of Marques, and they horse has never been better. I researched "front lameness and EPM" and did find some coalation between the two. My vet does do blocks, and that might be my next step, seems im at a split in the road and dont know which to try.
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DianE
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Username: scooter

Post Number: 6713
Registered: 9-2000
Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I would most certainly try the blocks first. I'm not real familiar with EPM, but from what I have read a sudden acute lameness (especially in front) isn't a typical presentation. EPM meds are expensive and have potential side effects, something I wouldn't want to give if they don't actually have it.

Let us know what you find out.
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Cheryl K
Member
Username: cheryl

Post Number: 547
Registered: 2-2000
Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 9:55 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Nina - my mare was sent to WSU - she was showing extreme incooridination in her rear legs - she was not owie lame - she was given a spinal tap and determined to have EPM - this was about 10 years ago - I haven't kept up on any medical advances - but I'm sure it still requires a spinal tap to determine the probability of EPM. She was never lame - as in a pain issue - Hope this helps.
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Fran C
Member
Username: canter

Post Number: 2393
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

A friend lost her wonderful TB gelding last fall to EPM. He presented with a mild, non specific lameness over a couple of weeks. My friend checked saddle fit, gave him time off and had the vet out to try to determine the source of his discomfort. It wasn't until he came in completely uncoordinated - which happened practically overnight - that he was rushed to MI State and diagnosed with EPM. Sadly, despite the best of care, it was too late and the damage had been done. He had to be euthanized.

I would suggest a thorough lameness eval sooner, rather than later so you can pinpoint the issue, and treat it, whatever the problem may be.
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Shannon
Member
Username: stek

Post Number: 639
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I agree with Diane, definitely do blocks first. I might ask for x-rays too... Have you tried hoof testers again? I've had abscesses test negative to hoof testers at first then positive after they have had more time to brew, though that was more like a 1-2/5 lameness case.
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Nina Butler
New Member
Username: ninabutl

Post Number: 5
Registered: 5-2010
Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 1:59 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have spent all morning with our vet, I decided to first go with the blocks. The vet first checked again with the hoof testers still good there. With the blocks we did 4 of them and he went sound in the area of the suspensory. We now have to wait until Tuesday for an ultrasound, and for the swelling to go down that will set in from the injections in the leg. We also did x-rays and rulled out any fractures .

Still thinking of the EPM could be causing the sudden onset of lameness, and there was no swelling which is most typical with suspensory damage. I was able to get a tube of the Marques and going start him on the medicine.

I am interested to see if there is any change on Tuesday before the ultra-sound.
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DianE
Member
Username: scooter

Post Number: 6714
Registered: 9-2000
Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

When my mare bowed her tendon, we couldn't figure it out either it took 2 weeks for the swelling and heat to show up, unfortunately I had turned her out and made it worse not knowing. All she did was slip in the mud and ended up with a BAD bow. Be careful with your pony until you know for sure what you are dealing with.
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rtrotter
Member
Username: rtrotter

Post Number: 807
Registered: 4-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Nina,

While a spinal tap is the best route to go if you want to diagnose EPM, there is a blood test you can do that will tell you if its reasonably possible for your horse to have EPM.

Diane, I think the thought process behind treating and not treating is that by the time you figure out what it is and isn't, your horse could be so far gone that no treatment will fix him if it does turn out to be EPM.

Dealing with racehorses all the time, I hear a lot about EPM. Its almost as if most of the trainers would rather treat than test because the testing winds up just adding to the cost. They treat and if the horse gets better, they feel they have gotten their answer. The strange thing is they do not treat according package directions, some of them treat for as long as 90 days and then keep treating a few days a week while the horse is racing. Since one needs to get the treatment from the vet, I can only assume that the vet knows what they are doing and the trainers are following the vets instructions.

Rachelle
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DianE
Member
Username: scooter

Post Number: 6718
Registered: 9-2000
Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I understand that Rachelle, but would hate for her to overlook something and make it worse.

Just seems an Acute onset front end lameness doesn't scream EPM. I don't see where she mentions any neurological signs either. Given enough time most lameness will correct themselves anyway. That said most horses don't follow the rule book, I know mine haven't read it
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24827
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2010 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Nina if the horse goes sound with a nerve block why would you continue to think EPM, I see no indication of this from your postings indeed it speaks away from a central nervous system disorder.

Could you outline which blocks were done and how they were performed? Not all blocks are equal and the information derived subject to interpretation. Though you have gone a long ways toward localization there is still some questions to be answered before a diagnosis can be made. For a complete description of this see, HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Lower Limb » Suspensory Desmitis, Strain, & Sprain.
DrO
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