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  Discussion on Pacing and Pedal Ostitis
Author Message
New Member:
Tcrut

Posted on Saturday, Jun 11, 2005 - 7:25 pm:

I have a rescue horse (a Saddlebred) on my property now that was stalled in a 8 x 10 stall for 8 years. When rescued he was underweight and paced constantly. The lady who owns him has had him for about a year now and said whenever he walks a lot he swells up. I suggested a vet look at him and he was diagnosed with Pedal Ostitis(sp?) in the back. Eggbar shoes were recommended and confinement for about 30 days. He doesn't like to be confined and paces more when in his corral. (He also paces when he's given pasture room) Is there any kind of supplement that will help with this problem or calm him enough to stop his pacing - or does anyone have any other suggestions?
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Saturday, Jun 11, 2005 - 9:01 pm:

I've had good results with At Ease, made by Select. It might be worth a try.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 - 9:20 am:

For other suggestions we have an article on this problem at Training Horses » Behavioral Problems » Stall Resting Horses. Sara can you tell us what is in the At Ease?
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 - 11:18 am:

Tryptophan min. 10%
Magnesium min. 40%
Thiamine min. 12,477 mgs.
Vit.B6 min. 6,886 mgs.

Whey, L-Tryptophan, magnesium oxide, thaimine mononitrate, and pyridoxineHyDrOchloride
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 - 10:59 pm:

These ingredients are common in lots of calming agents but unless any of these are deficient in the diet Sara, there is no scientific work to suggest adding these in excess will calm a stalled horse.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Jun 13, 2005 - 12:34 am:

I understand; I also know these ingredients are found in other products, but for some reason the At Ease seems to work on our two stallions. We give it to them mainly during breeding season, as that's the only time they are "hyper." They really are much calmer and more "laid back" if they are given the At Ease. Could their raging hormones during breeding season affect their digestion process so that they become deficient during breeding season and the At Ease supplements the deficiency? I'm one of the biggest skeptics there is and not prone to falling for "weird cures."
Member:
Bobs

Posted on Monday, Jun 13, 2005 - 1:00 pm:

The stallions are hyper during breeding season because of testosterone not any dietary deficiency. The ingredient, in AT Ease, that would work in humans is tryptophan. The tryptophan increases serotonin in the brain. Safe for humans. Performance issues like loss of erection can happen for your information but other than that if the formula works it is safe.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Jun 13, 2005 - 3:04 pm:

I know why they are hyper, Bob! I'm wondering why the At Ease works when Dr. O doesn't think it should. We've never had any erection problems, and have been using it for years. It just seems to take the "edge" off the boys during their breeding season.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 - 4:55 pm:

Sara, you misunderstand me. I say I do not know of any work that says such a product will make horses behave better. Because the thiamine did not seem right I went to the site and got these numbers for the ingredients on a per dose basis:
Tryptophan (minimum) 1,000 mg
Magnesium Oxide (minimum) 4,000 mg
Salt (maximum) 1,500 mg
Salt (minimum) 1,000 mg
Thiamin (minimum) 1,000 mg
Vitamin B6 (minimum) 450 mg

Concerning Bob's comment the effects of tryptophan and the seritonergic parts of the nervous system is very complicated and there is no work in horses to rely on. In rodents, some fish, and humans high doses (in a human trial where the drug was given orally about 24x the per lb dose of the At-Ease if you are giving it once a day) there are some repeatable anti-depressant and anti-anxiety effects measured. While they do become less quarrelsome there is an increase in dominant social behavior. However at the same time it has been shown repeatedly that the serotonergic system is activated during fights, and recent data suggested that it is necessary for the expression of aggressive behavior. This may be an effect of the aggression however and not a cause. Counter-intuitivly depletion of seretonin causes a sedative effect. There have also been rebound effects in some studies where when discontinued opposite effects are seen.

Lastly, it is not true this is absolutely safe. L-Tryptophan in humans for controlling anxiety and depression went in a real skid when it was found that a number of folks taking the manufactured product became ill with unusual autoimmune disorders. I have seen these explanations:
a) autoimmune, according to which tryptophan could act as an "immunogenic" stimulus, thus evoking a cell-mediated reaction against neuromuscular structures;
b) dysmetabolic, that is to say, related to neurotoxic metabolites of tryptophan, which in certain conditions could be degraded by an "alternate" pathway that is normally less operating;
c) toxic, which is the most accredited nowadays, according to which there is a toxic factor, perhaps similar to aniline, linked to the process of manufacture and purification of L-tryptophan.

How all of this might relate to At-Ease I don't know. Without work on safety, efficacy, dosage rate and frequency I know the folks who make this product don't know either. They put it together cause they though it was a good idea that might sell and at 5$ a dose charge to Sara they experiment on her horse. My personal experience with my clients is they like these products when they first buy them but then they report they quit working for them...hmmm. While I am handling their horses I don't notice the difference.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 - 6:55 pm:

Dr. O, thank you. I'm going to print this all up and take it to our trainer. She was the one who recommended At Ease to me saying it was the only such product that had any effect on her QH stallion. This is the second season we have used it, and it does seem to settle the one boy down quite a bit (the one that paced) The other guy is more laid back anyway, so I don't see a lot of difference with him.

Since I can't fool myself, I should put a similar looking powder in an At Ease container, and see if our trainer can tell the difference on her horse...do a blind study sort of.

The word "toxic" concerns me some. I'll have to give the At Ease some more thought. Breeding season is about over for this year anyway.

Thanks again for all you effort.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 15, 2005 - 8:50 am:

Maybe I should not admit to this, and my apologies to those trainers who can be engaged completely on the square, but many times my clients and I, after reviewing a trainer's recommendations, decide to "just say we did it". It is easier than arguing with some trainers you might just make mad and have the quality of the training go down. The list of items are from regular IM Adequan or injecting hocks, to beginning such supplements as this. The report always comes back with "much improved". If I ever got back "I don't see a improvement" I would reconsider doing it.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 15, 2005 - 11:53 am:

Yes, I know. This same trainer also had been trying to get me to have one of our stallions get hock injections for a year because she said he must have arthritis as he was "off" just a little. Neither the vet nor I could ever see anything, nor did I feel anything when riding him. To be on the safe side I had him quit reining as I didn't want to aggravate his hock. We had a 2nd set of x-rays taken recently and vet said his hocks were perfect. So I'm glad I never o.k.'d the injections. I think sometimes that some things are just "in vogue" so the trainer feels a need for it.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 15, 2005 - 5:56 pm:

You can always grind some oats, Sara, with a bit of alfalfa or clover leaves for colour and may be a tiny bit of soy meal to make the texture more complex.
Just two scoops a day and a wonder will be reported.
It calms down excited horses, it wakes up the sleepy ones, it extends the trot and it collects the canter. It even helps mares settle after the first early, unsuccessful attempts.
I am not joking, it really works.
If what it takes to get the job done is feeding the horse some silly preparation, by all means do it, but choose an inexpensive and safe one.
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