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Darren Robertson
Member
Username: Unicorn
Post Number: 35
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 23, 2005 - 6:21 am: |   |
OK after reading a lot of the articles on weightloss diarrhea etc etc.
I feel this little story should reside here as it is more related to the unknown causes listed in the article about malabsorption.
OK lets take Ginger Megs a 34year old Standardbred born in NZ and moved to Australia after a short racing career.
Living in the same 5 acre paddock for the last 28 years, probably has not had his teeth done in most of that time. His only feed is the grass under his feet and we have had a drought for 3 years but just enough rain to keep a cover of brown grass. It is the middle of winter but not a cold one yet the paddocks have only been white a couple of times.
I checked on him earlier this year as he was showing a loss of condition and his muscles were obviously soft.
He has been wormed 10 weeks ago (Abamectin) and wormed again 8 weeks ago (). This worming had no effect on him at all, the owner was bemused as he thought a wormer would help if the horse had parasites.
He is quite thin and has a big grass belly.
Having seen this many many times I know the diagnosis will be, the horse is old or the horse needs more food or since he has had his wormers then it must be his teeth.
The interesting fact is after watching this happen to numerous horses in numerous situations. The cause is in the gut, though what it is I cannot say due to lack of special equipement.
The report on malabsorption lists some causes as unknown, I hope that someone will take this evidence and make those unknowns into a cause.
Anyway 3 weeks ago I wormed Ginger Megs with Moxidectin, within one week his coat changed colour and improved from its light dry dead colour. He now looks like a red chestnut.
By week 2 his big grass belly had decreased in size and he had obviously put on a little weight. I then gave him dose 2 of Moxidectin, after having to chase him around the paddock, he even managed to rear up and spin around. Not bad for a 34 year old who could barely get away 2 weeks ago.
He has a bit of healing to do after such a long period of ill health. With his teeth the way they are he should get another 3-6 years maybe more.
I started on this case as I know his life is so constant that the only thing to change is the quality of the wormer. He is probably a good experiment just because the only change he has had is 3 different wormers 2 of which did nothing for their treatment period.
Dr.O for a horse in this sort of situation, grass for food, bad teeth and slight old age, is there something that is recorded that is only treated by Moxidectin.
I know it all sounds fanciful to have a problem like this, but there are causes listed as unknown, I just feel a little more research will explain at least one. I can pick a horse that is affected from a long way off, as they move a certain way and have a particular body shape.
That is why I picked this boy as he would only receive what I gave him, I also knew from experience it is what he needed. The unfortunate thing is while I was looking into Ginger Megs case 2 younger horses were put down due to old age :-(
When you read these reports http://us.merial.com/Pdf/page_pdf/Ivermectin_Doramectin_Moxidectin_Structure_and _Generation.pdf, in theory the products should be much the same. Though as each new generation arrived it killed previously hard to treat parasites.
I suppose my other question is where do vets take problems that they need answered too. Most go to the big Universities but is there a think tank group that might be able to shed some light on why this works so well. Either there is a parasite we cannot see or Moxidectin cures Leaky gut Syndrome ??
Regards
Darren |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13212
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 9:24 am: | |
To answer your direct question Darren, of what is treated by moxidectin the answer is in our article on this drug, but in general parasites are treated with moxidectin. For the specific ones see the article on the avermectins. One should note that old age is not a diagnosis, there are many things however that happen as we get older that does make us prone to diseases however. To further explore specific horses with specific problems requires a thorough exam however and then the results of the exam determine if further testing or what further tests need to be done. Some of those tests may require a big University.
DrO |
Darren Robertson
Member
Username: Unicorn
Post Number: 36
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 26, 2005 - 9:05 pm: | |
That is OK Dr. O, I got a message the other day that after nearly 12 months of consideration the Sydney Uni is going to run a project to find the cause.
My local vets call the problem "Old Horse Syndrome" and can diagnose it from blood tests but have no cure for it. In fact I know they put down 2 horses that were possibly curable in the last few weeks and that is just one clinic.
The Uni I think have done some research using the info I gathered to prove there was something to look for. I will keep you upto date with what I can, though I know it will be a long long time before there is a definitive answer. At least the recognition is there after 15 years that I can find records of.
Wether it turns out to be a gut problem healed by moxidectin or a small parasite, I just want to know the answer, at least the horses that can be saved will be saved.
Ginger Megs is looking better than ever and should see a few more birthdays yet.
Regards
Darren |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 682
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 27, 2005 - 12:40 am: | |
Great news, Darren. Looking forward to future installments. |
Little King Ranch
Member
Username: Eoeo
Post Number: 174
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 27, 2005 - 12:57 am: | |
Darren, I have a 26 year old Qtr Horse mare who has the same look, big belly, a tad thin but not too thin. I am going to try this on her. Will let you know. There are a few other mares in our older group, 18-20 who have large bellies. However they are brood mares who have had several foals and so has the 26 year old. The others are in foal so hesitate to try it on them. EO |
Darren Robertson
Member
Username: Unicorn
Post Number: 37
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 27, 2005 - 6:25 pm: | |
I would be interested to see what happens, one tell tale factor that you can check is the thigh muscles between the legs. Because the horse is not absorbing protein I find this region loses muscle mass first and though not entirely scientific is a measurable impact on the body.
Over all it looks as if the horse is not receiving enough food, the problem is in hind gut absorption.
Another outward sign is muscle strength, the horses appear to drag their feet a lot and generally move with very little energy.
This may not be obvious until you watch the change over a few days.
Regards
Darren |
Little King Ranch
Member
Username: Eoeo
Post Number: 176
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 27, 2005 - 6:40 pm: | |
I will report back in a couple of weeks. EO |
Darren Robertson
Member
Username: Unicorn
Post Number: 38
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 1, 2005 - 7:26 am: | |
Just doing another experiment on recovery, I have done it before but not with a specific aim.
I use Copra a coconut meal feed additive as a help in repair of muscle. In the past I just used it as a good idea, this time I waited to see its impact as a seperate entity.
Well my 30 year old has changed from healthy but no huge weight gain or muscle increase to jumping over 8 foot puddles of water and cantering.
I add 1 cup of Copra and 5 cups of water to the grain/chaff mix as feed boost.
Copra is high in protein and fibre and is good for reining horses working their muscles hard and seems to work real well in building muscles.
Regards
Darren |
