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Shelley
Member
Username: Sswiley
Post Number: 45
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, Sep 24, 2005 - 2:11 pm: |   |
Alicia's heart break finally prompted me to post this question.
We had a pony for 6 years and she coliced several times a year during that time. She had some history of colic before that but it is very vague. I have done extensive research and testing to determine what her problem was and never found an answer, a few years ago there was an extensive thread on her, I am sure its buried in the archives. Finally lost her to a small intestine rupture last summer at the young age of 11. UC Davis did an autopsy and found extensive inflammatory thickening throughout most of the small intestine. Nothing else unusual. no signs of parasites, encysted or otherwise. no cancer, no tumors, no sand. They basically came to no conclusion. Through out her life I had several x-rays, ultrasounds, blood tests, scoping, allergy tests,and of course tried many different types of feed regimes. I even tried homeopathy. To be honest that was the last thing I tried and she died with in 3 days of that treatment. (Of course I did not rely solely on homeopathy) The only possibility the vet and I were discussing was her exposure to a goat. I always had her isolated from the other horses to monitor her water, manure consistency, isolate her from possible parasite exposure (she was on daily wormer for most of the time). She did however have contact with a goat who liked to hang out with her and he had the run of the property. Has any one ever heard of something in goat droppings that could irritate a horse. I have asked this question before and the answer has always been no. But it appeared that something was irritating her intestine and even the autopsy had no answer. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13775
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 25, 2005 - 8:35 am: | |
Hello Shelly,
no I don't know anything like this from goats. If you will post the complete post op findings I would be glad to comment.
DrO |
Shelley
Member
Username: Sswiley
Post Number: 49
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 25, 2005 - 12:38 pm: | |
I will try to get them to email me the results. I have had several long conversations with the vet about it but I dont have anything in writing. It might take a few days. Thanks |
Shelley
Member
Username: Sswiley
Post Number: 59
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 30, 2005 - 10:23 am: | |
They ended up mailing me 4 pages of results. It makes me laugh that they can not email attachments. No biggie, they were very fast. Would you like me to scan it in? The print is very small and I am afraid if I use higher resolution on my scanner the file will be too big to post. I will try posting it. Hopefully you can read it. Thanks Shelley |
Shelley
Member
Username: Sswiley
Post Number: 63
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 7, 2005 - 9:26 pm: | |
Dr O.
Can I Pleeeease just email the 4 pages to you. I have tried everything. pdf files are 300 KB. jpg. files are 188. I tried reducing them with Irfanview and they are still over 64KB but they are unreadable because the print is too small. It must be 6 or 4 sized font on these papers. Hope your eyes are good. 
Not sure what else to do.
Shelley |
Susan Bilsky
Member
Username: Suzeb
Post Number: 490
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 7, 2005 - 10:21 pm: | |
Shelley, can you try putting them in "Word" , saving the file, edit and then try to upload. Not sure how it is going to work, but could be worth a try.
Hope I can help,
Susan B. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13868
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Oct 8, 2005 - 10:50 am: | |
Shelly, does your scanner software have an OCR function that would convert the image to text that you could post? If not email them to horseadvice@horseadvice.com and I will see what I can do next week.
DrO |
Shelley
Member
Username: Sswiley
Post Number: 67
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Oct 16, 2005 - 11:06 am: | |
Dr O. I emailed the pages to the above address earlier this week. Let me know if you did not get them. I tried a few more things and could not get the files small.
Thanks for putting up with me.
Shelley |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13919
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 17, 2005 - 7:28 am: | |
I have them Shelly, I just have not had time to go through them, maybe this week will be a bit better.
DrO |
Shelley
Member
Username: Sswiley
Post Number: 71
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 17, 2005 - 10:01 am: | |
Just wanted to make sure you had them. Take your time, there is obviously no hurry.
Thanks |
Shelley
Member
Username: Sswiley
Post Number: 74
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 19, 2005 - 4:29 pm: | |
not trying to nag you . . . .
I nag myself about this enough for both of us.
found this article on thehorse.com
"Colic-induced intestinal injury refers to colic-caused damage sustained by the intestine (twisting and loss of blood supply), the most common reason for colic fatalities.
For unknown reasons, some horses' intestines do a better job of repairing themselves than those in other horses. Using genetic sequencing (figuring out the genetic code), researchers at North Carolina State University (NCSU) and Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine are searching for the genes involved in intestinal repair. With that information, they hope to learn how to turn on or off genes that aid or hinder intestinal repair.
Reports NCSU researcher Anthony Blikslager, DVM, PhD (GI physiology), associate professor in equine surgery in the Department of Clinical Sciences at North Carolina State University, "We have sequenced a group of genes involved in regulating the connection between cells that line the intestinal tract; these cells stick together and re-seal damaged junctions in between the cells that line the intestine."
But in some horses, these cells contain reduced amounts of reparative proteins. "We want to understand the cause of these reduced amounts and then figure out a way to boost their production," he adds."
The full link is http://www.thehorse.com/viewarticle.aspx?ID=6169
I emailed the person referenced, to enquire how they measured this condition. Just thought it fit the pony's history and pathology results.
I am sure Davis has some frozen tissue samples left. Cant find anything in the pathology results about counting any reparative proteins. It seems to me, based on my conversations with the vet, they did a lot more tissue analysis than they reported on this paper. But with all those incredibly foreign words it might have gone completely over my head.
Thanks Shelley |
Shelley
Member
Username: Sswiley
Post Number: 84
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 9, 2005 - 12:00 am: | |
Dr O.
Hi again, Just wondering if you had any chance to look at the pathology report on our pony.
As far as the above post is concerned, I coordinated between my vet and the NCSU vet. They believed that the tissue was mostly inflamatory and not representative of the condition in the study.
Any thoughts about the post op report ?
Thanks Shelley |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14092
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 10, 2005 - 10:50 am: | |
I am trying to get it read in a OCR program and produce something I can post here. So far not much luck but I keep trying.
DrO |
Shelley
Member
Username: Sswiley
Post Number: 85
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 10, 2005 - 1:29 pm: | |
You know Dr. O . . . . you are going to have to also make a link to a medical dictionary if people are going to have any idea what this report means.  . . . or is it just me ! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14095
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 12, 2005 - 10:02 am: | |
We have a medical dictionary in the references section Shelly but I hope to explain what it says. It's just getting it up that is time consuming.
DrO |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14228
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 30, 2005 - 11:59 am: | |
Well I have done everything including a brand new OCR program and the resolution is just too poor to scan properly. I will look through the documents and post on them in the next few days.
DrO |
Shelley
Member
Username: Sswiley
Post Number: 104
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 30, 2005 - 5:22 pm: | |
Wow . . . sorry this has been such a pain. |
MICHELLE FRIPP
New Member
Username: Fripp
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 9:17 pm: | |
Hi My name is Michelle. I had to put my beloved horse Gee down last night . She started for about two weeks not being her self, I watched her she ate good drank good but she stayed away from the other horses, she was head mare. last night she didn't want her food so I walked her then she ate, by morning she had colic but the vet thought she would make it, but when she put the tub in her noise all of the reflix came up filled up two bucketts. she had know gut sounds she was so sick. she was my bay of 19 years
I am sorry for anyone who has to go through this. |
MICHELLE FRIPP
New Member
Username: Fripp
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 9:25 pm: | |
I need to understand how a horse that was so taken care of and loved could just Colic and twist her gut. We are two hours away from any hospital that could help/ I didn't want to put her down she was so sick. Did I do the right thing?
I am so sad.
Michelle |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 985
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 9:53 pm: | |
Michelle, I am so sorry about your Gee. It is unfair to yourself to question your decision. You did what you thought was the best thing for your mare. You don't know for sure that she would have made it to the hospital. I don't know how old your mare was, but as a horse gets older I believe their chances for surviving colic surgery are less. So, you don't know that she would have made it through surgery and recovery. You must trust your judgement, and your vet's judgement at the time. Again, I'm so sorry. I know it is very hard. I think most of us on this board have had to make this choice and understand how hard it is, and how hard it is to lose a good equine friend. |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne
Post Number: 148
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 9:56 pm: | |
Michelle,
So sorry to hear about Gee's death. You sound very sad...My thoughts and prayers are with you.
With the information that you provided and the fact there were was absence of bowel sounds it sounds like she was very sick....I am not a vet but I know that when intestines twist and don't get the needed blood supply it doesn't take very long for tissues to die....it can make a horse (or any animal) very sick in a short amount of time.
I can sympathize with you about living that far from an Equine hospital as we do too.
I am sure you made the right decision, however hard, for your beloved Gee.
It's been a hard week for members here at HA, two others have lost their horses as well, take solace in the fact that you will find the needed support here.
God Bless,
Corinne |
Shirley A. Johnson
Member
Username: Shirl
Post Number: 286
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 10:00 pm: | |
Michelle,
I'm so sorry for your loss. I think most of us have been there or will be. YOur decision was based on love for Gee, not wanting her to suffer. She is now happy over "The Bridge" leaving you with quiet memories. Her spirit lives on with you always. Love, Shirl |
Shelley
Member
Username: Sswiley
Post Number: 109
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 10:31 pm: | |
Michelle,
Two buckets is a lot of reflux. It sounds like everything progressed very fast. Sometimes, all the love in the world will not stop these things. It is just that way with colics. Be content with your decision, when it comes from a caring owner its the right decision. We know how sad you are and we feel your grief.
Take care of yourself, Shelley |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 879
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 11:34 pm: | |
Michelle, I, too, empathize with your pain over having to watch your horse go through the sickness of colic. It sounds as though she may have been impacting for awhile before last night . . . and she just didn't feel well enough to interact with her buddies.
We have these wonderful animals, Michelle, and we know when we get them that they will probably not outlast us . . . and that we will have to see them out of this life . . . and colic is one of the most common ways that horses leave this earth.
Take heart in your memories and don't give up hope of having many other wonderful horses in your life . . . for you are an owner who cares, and our "pets" need that kind of caring. |
MICHELLE FRIPP
New Member
Username: Fripp
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 5:00 am: | |
Thank you all, its 430in the morning I can't stop crying. You know I love the other horses but she was the one. I thought she was just not liking the cold but when she started to stay away I would have to go get her in the woods. She also had a lump under stomach the vet thought she might have something else going on. I gave her the best feed she had electrolytes in her water, daily wormer, I did not know this but daily wormer will give you up to 5,000 towards colic surgery. My vet told me that. I wish she would have told me before this. You have to have your vet give them an exam then she turns it into the company. It just doesen't matter now. I didn't want to cut her up.The other horses seem to know the last day we kept walking for hours so she wouldn't roll, they came up to her smelled her and ran from her. I can't bring her back but C0lic is just so hard I just don't understand. |
MICHELLE FRIPP
New Member
Username: Fripp
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 5:11 am: | |
Thank you all. Gee was 19 years young. She was a horse that I rescued from an Auction, She new Dressage she was a real Lady. My Daughter is 14 loved her so. We live on a farm in Georgia, My Mattie walk her to the top of the hill to put her down. We have a lot of sand here, but I gave sandy clear all the time. I just thought she was hating the cold She was the only one of our horses that had her on Blanket. She like it Germanie was her race name. Thank you all again once you have loved a horse no one understands but, horse people do. I am sorry for my writing I just can't stop crying. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14251
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 6:41 am: | |
My deepest condolences Michelle, there is nothing wrong with the crying. Your other horses are going to need you soon talking it over with them will help.
DrO |
Shirley A. Johnson
Member
Username: Shirl
Post Number: 287
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 11:10 am: | |
Michelle, Crying is the best way to begin the healing process, which takes a long time. It will actually seem unreal to you that she is gone then memories kick in. It's been a year since I lost "The One" as you put it and I'm still teary eyed at times. Grief comes in waves. Share your grief with the other horses, they will understand.
Love, Shirl |
MICHELLE FRIPP
Member
Username: Fripp
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 11:40 am: | |
Thank you Shirley, I am worried about my daughter that was her show horse, she can't cry she said. She new Gee had not been herself, I wish I could understand why God takes the sweet horses.
Michelle |
Shirley A. Johnson
Member
Username: Shirl
Post Number: 288
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 11:52 am: | |
Michelle, If I knew the answer to that question we'd all have our special ones back forever. I'm so sorry for all of you, and I know how your dtr. is hurting. Try to get her to communicate by talking about the good times with her horse. If that doesn't work, you need to contact a group for those who have lost their animals. I have the addresses at home, but I'm at work now. If someone else can chime in here with something now, please do so. If you still want it this eve. let me know. If you ever want to contact me about anything my personal address is shirley4715@msn.com. You might also go to the section on spiritual things in this group. I've written a lot regarding Sierra. I beleive it's under Art. and Entertainment. Love, Shirl |
Ann Schrichte
Member
Username: Annes
Post Number: 129
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 11:54 am: | |
Michelle, I am so sorry. Five years ago my first horse, Dolly, at 18 years old died the same as your Gee. She was never sick a day in her life and then suddenly over a 2 week period she was not herself and not interested in eating. Two different vets saw her. Like you, I did not want to have the necropsy - it would not bring her back. We figured impaction/colic/twisted gut. I tell you this because I tortured myself wondering why and what more I could have done. Please don't do that to yourself. I hope that it helps to know there are others who truly know what you are going through. When my horse died, I was not a member here and I did not have one single person who understood the grief we feel when we lose an equine friend. I will be thinking of you. - Ann |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 880
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 12:57 pm: | |
Michelle, in this world, death, sickness, sadness, poverty, hatred, etc, come to all earthly beings in some form . . . and no matter how we rage, we can't change the fact that there is pain here on earth . . .
All living things die, both "good" and "bad" . . . God doesn't "take the good ones;" He puts them in our lives.
Grieving is right and good . . . we need to do it. Please know that the shock and grief are part of the healing process . . . and you are in that very first part . . . You have been through grief before and know that it will pass.
I once allowed myself to stay in the grief . . . and didn't turn it into appreciation for the other beautiful things in my life . . . and didn't make the most of every day and every relationship, and didn't use every minute to build good memories. It was the darkest time of my life, but from that time, I learned my most valuable lesson.
You have good memories of your times with Gee . . . and of seeing your daughter happy with Gee . . . The mare added wonderful things to your lives. Now it is time for the love you had with Gee to grow even larger . . . to reach out and to touch more people and horses.
By God's grace and over many years of pain and darkness, I learned to seek the good from every circumstance, rather than be bitter for the losses. I experienced the blessings of thankfulness as opposed to the destructiveness of bitterness.
The hard things in our lives give us opportunities to grow in love . . . we can let the hard things eat away at us and drive us into despair or we can let those hard times teach us to have thankful hearts and to reach out in love. . . . We can't rid the world of pain, but we can use the painful things for good.
All ready, we members at HA have been touched by the emotion you are sharing about your love for your daughter and your love for Gee, and your sharing has reminded us of the importance to enjoy our horses while we have them in our lives. Thank you for sharing with us. Be patient with yourself as you go through this beginning stage . . . the light and laughter will return. |
Shirley A. Johnson
Member
Username: Shirl
Post Number: 289
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 1:14 pm: | |
Holly, A beautiful post, thank you for those words as all of us who have lost our dearest friends, human and animal can benefit from your words. You are a very wise, wonderful woman. Your words hold a world of good for me.
Love, Shirley |
MICHELLE FRIPP
Member
Username: Fripp
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 1:16 pm: | |
Thanks Anne, but she ate real good she just stayed away, that wasn't her she like to dip her hay in water, we laugh when she first did that then all the other horses did it after watching her. But the other horses just seem to know . our Gelding was so mean to her the last day he chased her away. he always loved her.
Michelle |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1033
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 1:20 pm: | |
I am not nearly so eloquent as others here, I will just send (((( Hugs )))) to you and your daughter Michelle.
ps Holly, indeed, what a wonderful thoughtful post! |
MICHELLE FRIPP
Member
Username: Fripp
Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 1:24 pm: | |
Holly, you all have touch me . I have been reading all the mail I just joined a while back. I am so glad you all our here. When are ap died last year my husband was so sad, I bought him a baby ap this year I hope he will fall in love with him. We named him Ransom ,but he can be bad. He is 6 month's old. I am Gelding him next week now I am scared.
Thanks again you all.
Love Michelle |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 881
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 2:14 pm: | |
Michelle,
All ready I am finding humor in the situation with your baby App . . . When we get a horse, we know so little of what it holds in store for us. Always, we are have times of surprise, laughter, alarm, tears . . . and each horse helps us grow if we watch and listen. I love Appys and would love to see photos of your baby.
I am thankful for the opportunity to share in this forum. Dr. O's dream of helping horse owners has certainly stretched out to touch horse lovers and horses all over the globe . . . not just in physical ways, but in emotional and spiritual ways, as well. Thank you , Dr. Oglesby, for dreaming and stepping out in faith into your dream to create The Horseman's Advisor. It continues to grow and has benefitted me in ways that I certainly never thought a "vet" site could do. |
joann mitcham
Member
Username: Joann
Post Number: 13
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Dec 3, 2005 - 12:55 am: | |
Michelle: Just logging on and see you and I have had the same unhappy ending for our horse. One week now and its better and every night I tell myself we did the right thing. Why there is not some wonder drug, feed, or process to prevent colic is mind boggling. We do the right things (at least my vet said I did) and then the colic and the loss. Its really , really, really tough. I have another horse and donkey and spending as much time as I can with them, for me, for them. joann |
MICHELLE FRIPP
Member
Username: Fripp
Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, Dec 3, 2005 - 9:00 am: | |
Thank you Joann, I am better today. I still find myself looking for her everyday. I will miss her the most, she was a former race horse, she had such class. She loved everyone smelled so sweet. I pray that I wouldn't have to go thru this again. I am sorry for your lose too.
My daughter say's she is with our Lord riding with him. It say's in the bible that God will be riding a horse when he comes back, I know that will be true.
Thank you all so much.
Michelle |
Lilo
Member
Username: Lilo
Post Number: 218
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Dec 3, 2005 - 4:42 pm: | |
Michelle - I am crying as I am reading this. Had to make the decision to put two horses down in the last 10 years - one was my daughter's beloved gelding, so she made the decision. We know we made the right decision - but, it is still very hard.
On this website you will find so much support.
My deepest condolences to you and your daughter and to Joann.
Lilo |
MICHELLE FRIPP
Member
Username: Fripp
Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Dec 4, 2005 - 9:26 am: | |
Lilo Thank you so much. I am better today, I miss her so, My daughter is better today too. You all have been a big help to me. I am so glad to know you all care so much.
I do have another horse actually 5 more But Gee was my heart. She had big brown eye's long eyelashes, and just a way to love you. We have a Saddlebred horse named Legs she is 17 hands we call her our drama girl. We rescued her in a ice storm last year. My husband walked her 3 miles to get her here. She had a very bad cold. Called our equine vet in, She still coughs in the morning. I give her a Halls cough drop, I hope that's ok? It does seem to help her. Summer she never coughs, It starts in the Fall. I wet her Hay and food.
Love to all of you.
Michelle |
barbara
Member
Username: Oscarvv
Post Number: 704
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Sunday, Dec 4, 2005 - 10:39 am: | |
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