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Discussion on Stumbling and DrOpping to the ground | |
Author | Message |
Member: Lsweeney |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 9, 2005 - 1:02 pm: I recently took my horse camping. On the first day we were walking across the meadow, she tripped on her front foot, went all the way to the ground, popped her head up, hit me in the cheek and almost knocked me out, and then I went over her head.Day two, assuming this was a fluke and sporting a beautiful black eye and sprained hand, rode for about 3 hours on trails, and at the walk, down hill, she tripped again, went all the way to the ground, and I went over her head again. This time with only some bruises to report. However, no longer convinced it was a fluke. Background: This horse is foundered. I do her feet. She is barefoot (always has been), and she wears Easy Boots on the front when we ride. She is as sound as a foundered horse can be. Completely barefoot, she will avoid gravel, but very comfortable in boots. I have had vets looks at her feet and comment with surprise at how good they look given a laminitis history. My pasture is hilly, dry and is somewhat rocky. She flies around the pasture with no problem. I keep her toes rolled and pushed back. She has a pretty typical looking barefoot foot, with low heels. I am heavy, about 195 lbs. She is an smaller Arab. I don't ride in a saddle, so I figure I'm about an average weight rider with a saddle weight-wise. I have ridden bareback for 36 years, so I ride well, with good balance. I have owned the horse since she was born. She is 17. I have noticed her starting to trip as she has gotten older and I have gotten fatter :-(. Her back fetlocks will give out on occasion, and she has stumbled more frequently than I would like over the last couple of years. We are weekend riders, and go camping about every other week. We only walk on the trails. We do ride more difficult trails in the sierras. Higher elevation. Lots of dust, shale, granite, etc. In fact, I got off and walked to watch how she was moving, and I tripped twice on rocks. O.K., now I know there are a zillion things in the above scenario that could be creating a problem. However, my weight, the founder, the trails, have all been static. Oh, and the month before I had her at 8,000 feet doing some really hairy trails, and while I'm sure she tripped here and there on the trail, we weren't doing this instant DrOp to the ground thing. I mean there is no scrambling to catch our balance. We just trip and fall flat on our face. On this previous trip I was surprised at how much energy she had and she was fighting me, trying to fly up steep hills. We had several long half-day+ rides, with no bad events. Now the weather had changed 30 days later. It got down to 26 degrees where we were at night. (She was blanketed.) So here are my ideas: She is getting older, so when you add temperature change and altitude, she might be stiffer and couldn't compensate as easily. Interesting she does get clogged tear ducts (read the posts related to this and stumbling). Other obvious things to note: She doesn't wear the easy boots all of the time, so she has to compensate for this. Were we just not thinking about it? She gets nothing for joints of an older horse, time to think about some MSM or Flexese? She did have a bloody nose on day 2, before the 2nd fall, that I assumed was related to falling on her face the day before, but could this be a sign of something else? She has been innoculated several times for WNV (I think stumbling is one of the symptoms). However, she doesn't look disoriented, wobbly or loopy. Could it be just a combination of my weight, her age, the altitude, the DrOp in outside temperature, etc.? I don't know. The most disconcerting thing about it is that there is no warning, and as a seasoned rider, there was absolutely nothing I could do to save myself. It has been two weeks and my black eye is still slowly fading away. My poor husband is under suspicion. |
Member: Ajudson1 |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 9, 2005 - 1:42 pm: Hi Laurie,I am probably wrong here, but she reminds me of what happened to our mare Fancy. She was an Arab also, and smaller. So I am thinking maybe her knees are giving out? Arthritis break down. I posted this under bowed knee last spring or winter. But of course she was limping also and I don't think you said she's limping? I'd suggest you stay off her until you can get her checked thoroughly. Please be careful!! Fancy's colt broke his leg at 7. No reason behind it, he was just running in the pasture. Someone told me Arabs have brittle bones from too much line breeding, or in breeding. Just throwing some ideas out here for you. Let us know what you find out. |
Member: Lsweeney |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 9, 2005 - 3:31 pm: Thanks Angie. That's kind of what I'm thinking, that it is more joint related. And more age/size related. No, she is not lame. She's fine. I'm the one that looks like I've been in a prize fight.... |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 9, 2005 - 3:48 pm: I also have a smallish Arab mare, tho' she is quite stocky. She is 24 and I still ride her in the mtns. around here. Our mountains aren't as rugged as the Sierras (where I rode for over 20 yrs.) but are steep, uneven and sometimes rocky. The only time she's ever had a problem was when her feet were too long. So, that would be my first thought; were her feet getting a little long? When conditions are uneven and rugged it can make a big difference.I do keep my mare on a joint supplement, but don't know that arthritis per se would make the joint so weak that she would fall. I would think an xray would answer that question. If she was barefoot without a boot and had a stone bruise or just a tender sole, that would also make her stumble; but I would think you'd have noticed a stone bruise. Though, I have known horses to not show any signs of tenderness until they hit a sharp rock. I'd have your vet check her out before you ride her again. And, do be careful! btw- do you wear a helmet? Sounds like it might be a good idea. |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, Oct 10, 2005 - 9:46 am: I too think that there are some pain issues here but from your post cannot differentiate foot from knees, I have seen both cause such issues but because of the sudden nature and the fact that bilateral low grade problems more likely to be hard to pick up, I suspect feet. Your first step should be a good lameness exam intent on finding occult or bilateral lameness.DrO |
Member: Lsweeney |
Posted on Saturday, Oct 15, 2005 - 10:37 pm: Thanks for the posts. She is truly tripping. Not stepping on a stone and jumping off of it due to pain. The first fall was in a soft grass pasture, however, the terrain was uneven.There are a lot of reasons for her tripping. I guess what I was reacting to is the fact that she didn't seem to have any ability to catch herself. The action was more of trip and face plant. So I'm tending to question the knees. I'm also really questioning my weight and her small size and age. The reality is that I have never seen her fall out in the pasture walking around without me. So it has to have something to do with the additional load and her legs. I think one real solution is for me to DrOp 60 lbs. It would be good for both me and her. So either I will be walking her or carrying her as part of MY new exercise program. :-) Yes, I wear a helmet, but it sure didn't save my face or hand. |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 16, 2005 - 11:08 am: Hi Laurie- the weight loss would be good for you, but I know it's more easily said than done. I've seen books geared towards riders that might help you get into shape. Seems like I saw them in both State Line and Dover catalogs.I would still get your horse checked out though to rule out any problems. Also, the way you ride, where your center of balance is would especially affect your horse if you are heavy. |
Member: Sswiley |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 16, 2005 - 11:31 am: Laurie,Have you checked her back for soreness? I had a TB once that tripped a lot. Big ones, they took a good five or more steps of hair-raising recovery before we were back on all four feet. After poking around I found a very tender area with a hard knot. It appeared to be back pain. Possibly the pain made him walk different and kept him from recovering his trip easily? Spent alot of time massaging the area and over the course of about a month, it disappeared along with the tripping. It absolutley could have been coincidence, but it would not hurt to see if your weight could be causing some back issues. Good luck |
Member: Sswiley |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 16, 2005 - 11:35 am: One more thing, What do mean about her back fetlocks giving out? What exactly happens . . . ? |
Member: Hboggini |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 16, 2005 - 7:28 pm: Hi LaurieI recently met an equine dentist named Spencer Lafleur who has a great video out and talks about how improper dentistry in horses can greatly affect balance. I believe a third of their proprioception comes from the TMJ and if it becomes out of alignment they can have all kinds of problems with lameness and balance. i unfortunatly lent the video to a friend and dont have his web site. I think you can do a search and will find it. Its worth looking into to. Hope all goes well. Heidi |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, Oct 17, 2005 - 9:19 am: Heidi, it is not sensible that 1/3rd of a horses proprioception (except perhaps the proprioception that relates specifically to the position of the mandible with respect to the maxilla) It is true the tmj joint lies closely to the inner ear which has much to do with balance which is different than proprioception. I believe I have heard of, though cannot specifically remember, some inflammatory diseases of the tmj spreading into the inner ear and causing balance troubles. I am unfamiliar with any cases where horses where improperly floated that resulted in balance problems.DrO |
Member: Mrose |
Posted on Monday, Oct 17, 2005 - 1:06 pm: In people there would usually be a lot of symptoms of TMJ that would show up before dizziness; pain at the joint site; difficulty chewing; headaches to name a few. Also, the person would usually have to have severe malocclusion to cause dizziness. I would assume horses would be the same. I would think there would be other symptoms that would show up before the stumbling. |