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Emily French
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 12, 1999 - 11:17 pm: |   |
Dr O-
A friend (I use the term loosly) just came back
from a pack trip with a horrible story... to make
it short, one of his horses while up in a back
country meadow was bit by a rattle snake in the
rear lower leg. The leg swelled so baldly that the
skin split from the heel up past the hock and then
a large strip skin and meat fell off exposing the
bone and tendons.
My husband and I pack in the same area and just
now realized that we would not know what to do.
Obviously keeping the horse quiet, but no matter
how you cut it you've got a very long trek to get
to a vet, sometimes several days...
What, if anything could have helped mitigate the
damaged caused by the swelling?
What would be an apprpriate first aid response to
this?
Thanks
-Emily
PS - The horse is still alive, although his owner
and I have a serious diffrence of opinion when it
comes to medical care levels... I am trying to get
him to let me tend to the horse while he
recovers... but thats another post. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 13, 1999 - 8:10 am: | |
There always seems to be a lot of argument about proper care of snake bites. Around here we see copper head bites frequently but they rarely are more trouble than some local swelling and discomfort once anti-inflammatories and antibiotics are begun. The big argument is always whether steroids should be used or not, some do - some don't, and it does not seem to make a lot difference in outcome.
But a large rattlesnake bite is a different creature all together. Though both snakes have similar venoms the rattle snake seems to be more potent and give larger volumes.
According to Reed's Internal Medicine the following recommendations are made:
1) Incisions and suction of the bite wounds are probably a waste of time as the toxin is absorbed rapidly. (It sounds like to me if it is a large snake and you are there when the bite occurs it might be worthy a try)
2) Moderate cold theray may help but prolonged very cold treatment will worsen local necrosis. No guidelines are given.
3) Corticosteroids are indicated very early. (there are authors to say the opposite)
4) NSAID's are not indicated until swelling starts. (I question this personally. The reason he gives is potentiation of a thrombocytpenia.)
5) Wide spectrun antibiotics should be instituted.
So what does this mean to the person who is 3 days ride from a trailer? As I see it the big question is, "do I stay put while this gets over the worse stage or do I try and get out?" My decision would be to try and get the horse out as the worse periods may be 3 to 7 days away when the necrosis and infection really get started.
If I saw the bite occur, I would open the wounds to about 1/3 of an inch, apply suction with a syringe (cut the end out and pull) and give them good wound care and bandage. If I had them with me I would administer: moderate doses of corticosteroid (one time only) and large doses of bute and antibiotics during the whole trip home, pack some cool to cold but not frozen material around the wound and start walking. Keep the bandage firm but not tight, it may have to be loosened frequently as the wound swells. I would remove as much weight as I could from the horse. I would probably do a lot of praying as I went. I should say that good tetanus vaccination status is a must in horses with a snake bite.
DrO |
Emily French
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 13, 1999 - 8:51 pm: | |
Thanks Dr O-
It's good to know that my inclination was pretty
close to what you reccomend... especially the
praying!
-Emily |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 7812
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 18, 2003 - 8:26 am: | |
Toxicon 2003 Mar 1;41(3):357-365<br>
The efficacy of two antivenoms against the venom of North American snakes.<br><br>Sanchez EE, Galan JA, Perez JC, Rodri;guez-Acosta A, Chase PB, Perez JC.<br>Department of Biology, Natural Toxins Research Center (NTRC), Texas A&M University-Kingsville, MSC 158, 78363-8202, Kingsville, TX, USA<br><br>Mortality due to snake envenomation is not a major problem in the United States with approximately 8-12 deaths per year, but envenomation is a serious problem that can result in functional disability, loss of extremities, and a costly recovery. Physicians encounter different clinical situations with each new snakebite victim because of the geographical variations in snake venoms. The best and most acceptable form of treatment is the use of antivenom; however, it must be administered as soon as possible since it is not so effective at reducing local signs of envenomation such as necrosis. The antivenom in the United States is in short supply, expensive and may not even be the most effective for neutralizing all North American snake venoms. In this study, we tested two antivenoms. The first was a Crotalidae Polyvalent Fab fragment with Ovine origin (FabO) manufactured in London, and the second was Antivipmyn, a Mexican manufactured antivenom that is F(ab')(2) fragment produced in horse (Fab(2)H). The efficacy of the two antivenoms was tested with 15 different snake venoms found in North America. Three different assays were used to test the efficacy of the antivenoms, the in vivo serum protection test (ED(50)), antihemorrhagic and anticoagulant. The Fab(2)H antivenom was most effective in neutralizing the hemorrhagic activity of 78% of the hemorrhagic venoms used in this study. In the ED(50) assay, the Fab(2)H antivenom was effective in neutralizing all venoms used in this study, while FabO neutralized all but C. m. molossus venom. However, in most cases, FabO required less antivenom than Fab(2)H antivenom to neutralize three LD(50).<hr><br>
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|
Judy G. Thompson
New Member
Username: Judyt
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 7:59 pm: | |
I have a question in reference to a snake bite. A friends horse apparently got bitten by a copperhead snake in the chest. They took him to the vet and they think that is what happened to him. He had become very swollen and was beginning to have a hard time walking. The vet found a wound on his chest. They cut a big X in his chest to let it drain. The smell was awful from infection and we guess dead tissue. Now one day later he is just oozing something that looks like dead tissue. They have him on three different antibiotics. Has anyone had an experience like this? Is this normal for a snake bite? He is still swollen but eating and drinking. Any information would be appreciated.
Thanks so much,
Judy |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14119
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 15, 2005 - 8:55 am: | |
Not for a copperhead which usually causes moderate swelling and perhaps a small amount of necrosis and drainage around the puncture wounds. Also this would be an unusual location. I almost always see copperhead (a very common snake in our area) bite on the nose but suppose it could also happen on the lower legs of horses.
DrO |
Judy G. Thompson
New Member
Username: Judyt
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 15, 2005 - 11:35 am: | |
We do think it is in an unusual spot for a bite, but where the horses are is a large dirt pile and we believe the snake may have been sunning himself. It has been so warm here. This morning he is still oozing the dead tissue and infection. Will the antibiotics stop the infection and the tissue loss. Or will the tissue continue to die? This is awful!! Their vet said that you need for the tissue and infection to drain. I can't believe there is that much in there. Just keep him in your prayers. |
S. T. Bruce
Member
Username: Kari
Post Number: 216
Registered: 3-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 15, 2005 - 4:52 pm: | |
Judy,
Can't speak to the snake bite but a 3yr. filly of mine developed an abscess in the neck from an injection. The area of the abscess swelled to approx. 12" in width and at least 1" in height. The abscess was drained and antibiotics given along flushing the wound with approx. 20 ccs of
hydrogen peroxide daily. It took approx. 2 wks. for the site to drain and you wouldn't believe the amount of dead flesh and pus that came out of it. It is now gone with only a small bump at the site to show where it was. Hopefully your situation will have the same results.
S. T. |
Ann
Member
Username: Lilly
Post Number: 43
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 15, 2005 - 7:47 pm: | |
Judy,
Is the vet positive that it is a snake bite? Did he find puncture holes? Could it possibly be a spider bite, like a brown recluse? I know their bites cause the flesh to die. |
Judy G. Thompson
Member
Username: Judyt
Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 16, 2005 - 11:54 am: | |
We don't know exactly what happened to him. We were all assuming it was a snake bite or spider. Now we just don't know. We think he has a small hole in his esophogus because when she squirted some medicine in his throat today some came of the hole in his chest. Maybe the stuff that looked like oatmeal was actually grain. This is so bizarre. He has no fever but the hole is getting bigger. They are taking him to the vet again now. Anyone have any ideas? We are at such a loss. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 840
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 16, 2005 - 12:10 pm: | |
I have no ideas, Judy, amd will be very interested to know what the vet discovers. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14130
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 16, 2005 - 5:13 pm: | |
I don't know Judy, certainly any tissue already dead will continue to necrose away and whether the antibiotic will stop it depends on the nature of the infection and whether it is sensitive to your antibiotics. It sounds like you have a wide spectrum of antibiotics going in and most abscesses like this will be stopped with good wound care and antibiotics see Equine Diseases » Skin Diseases » Wounds / Burns » Long Term Deep Wound Care.
DrO |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 145
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 16, 2005 - 5:22 pm: | |
I wonder about the possibility of him running into or rolling onto a branch or something that got into his chest and broke off inside, (I know a horse this happened to) but expect the Vet. did a thorough enough examination to look for foreign objects? One of mine got a terrific chest wound once from running into a gate that had some sharp areas on it. I replaced all those gates promptly and had to treat the proud flesh once it began to heal. |
