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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 642
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 15, 2005 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

My 9 year old gelding has an extremely thick mane. Under his mane, along the line where the neck meets the mane he has a lot of little scabs. They are only under his mane, but run almost the full length of his neck. They are hard and about the size of a pencil's eraser head. When you pick them off they are kind of yellowish. I read all the articles and the closest I could come was maybe 'summer sores', but it's long past summer here now, we have snow and it's quite cold, but we have had bouts of rain and mud in the past few weeks and the horses seem to roll in the mud a lot. Pastures are quite thick and wet. We haven't de-wormed yet, as we are waiting for a recent warm spell to pass and for the ground to freeze but will be de-worming with ivermectin. Any thoughts?
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Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann

Post Number: 144
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 15, 2005 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Even here in sunny Florida the season for "summer sores" is over. Since this problem is located under a long, thick mane, perhaps you should check for lice/mites.
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WTG
Member
Username: Angel77

Post Number: 86
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 16, 2005 - 4:08 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dear Sherri,

I use listerine on my horses mane as a monthly maintenance to disinfect and get rid of any critters and fungus. I have never had any scabs as you are describing.

So I would not recommend using the listerine-original on your horse until there aren't any open sores.

Dr.O will advise you properly. Do horses get Scratches in their mane?

I would maybe wash and braise with betadine surgical scrub or novalsan scrub and then dress the mane with something like a triple antibiotic ointment?

Good luck,

WTG
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 14132
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 16, 2005 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

No summer sores do not appear as little scabs, more like a irritated tumor. I think dermatophillus (rain rot) sounds most likely Sherri see, Equine Diseases » Skin Diseases » Hair and Coat Problems / Itching / Irritated Skin » Rain Rot and Rain Scald: Dermatophillus.
DrO
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 644
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Thursday, Nov 17, 2005 - 8:24 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Rain rot was my first thought, but I've had no experience with it before so was unsure, especially because of the location of the scabs, but now I'm fairly convinced that is what it is. There are no scabs on his back or rump or anywhere else, just right under the mane along the topline of his neck. He does have a very thick coat, thick mane and we've had a lot of mud and rain and snow of late, more rain tomorrow. He is turned out 24/7 on pasture and seldom is bothered by inclement weather and usually prefers to stand out in it, rather than come in to the yard to seek shelter.

I will proceed with treatment for rain rot.
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Mandy
Member
Username: Bucky

Post Number: 73
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Thursday, Nov 17, 2005 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

My horses are the same way Sherri, 2 barns to go in & 24/7 pasture and they often seem to much rather be in it with their behinds to the wind. It really crosses their wires to be locked in the barn. Poor trainng on my part I guess.
Hope you get your rain rot cleared up....
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 645
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Thursday, Nov 17, 2005 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Mandy, I don't think I'd call it poor training on your part...I think horses would generally rather be outside if given the chance or choice. We bring ours in every night into their tie stalls, but only for about a half hour or so to give them their 'evening treat'. They're learning to come in one by one into their appropriate stall and stand quiet until they get their oats. It's our way of getting them in from the pasture. We go outside and shake a set of jingle bells and they have learned that means 'oats' and they come running in from the pasture and literally line up at the barn door and can't wait to stick their noses into their halters.

I hope I can get it cleared up too. I know that 2 of our 5 horses have these scabs under their manes, just that my 9 year old is the worst. We're going to start tonight.
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 647
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, after careful inspection last night, it looks like 3 of the 5 horses have a little rain rot, or whatever it is. It's still very minor, limited mainly to a few scabs on the rumps and withers and under the manes. Nothing on the fetlocks, backs or bellies. Interesting, only the 3 tennessee walking horses are affected, maybe because their coats are much denser than the quarter horse's? The foal is fine too.

We are experiencing some pretty warm weather here right now, well, warm for here (about +5 celcius) so we got the scabs off with a betadine scrub last night, but man oh man, talk about suds!!!!! It's not feasible to bring out the hose at this time of the year, we had to rinse with pails of warm water and then try and rub them dry with towels. We didn't put anything else on last night, it was a monumental effort just to rinse. I've had conflicting suggestions on what to put on after washing. Some say nothing, others say to put on tea tree ADE, or a product called MTG which is basically just a conditioner.

I hardly used any betadine, but the combination of warm water and their dense, dense coats sure made more suds than I was hoping for when I was scrubbing. I'm not even sure I got it all out.
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Susan Bilsky
Member
Username: Suzeb

Post Number: 528
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Sherri,

When Laser had his Alopecia last year, I was faced with the same conditions. No warm place to wash and dry. My vet suggested a large tube of Hibitane cream, available at the college, to spot treat and he had a lot of spots. Of course, I patiently waited for Spring when I could give him full baths of Betadine and rinse this stuff out.

What you are basically trying to do is kill the bacterial infection and stop it from spreading. It will look worse before it looks better.

Weather conditions certainly are right for this kind of thing to manifest itself. I hope I don't have the same problem.

Good luck .
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 649
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Susan,

I'm hoping that it won't get too much worse. We don't have very many spots and they're very tiny so starting tonight we're going to just spot treat.

And of course it has to be raining again today!!! I guess if nothing else, the rain will wash off the remaining betadine that was left behind last night!

I was also told to just leave it alone, do nothing and that their immune system would kick in and take care of it.

Boy, sometimes it's hard to sort through all the advice, so many different approaches work for different people and often I wonder if when a problem like this is solved, was it the prescribed treatment that worked to solve the problem, or would have the problem sorted itself out even inspite of the treatment? ...if you know what I mean....it's hard to put into words.
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Susan Bilsky
Member
Username: Suzeb

Post Number: 530
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Sherri,

It probably will resolve itself, in spite of any treatment or lack thereof. Assuming it is rainrot, the treatment is designed to kill off the bacteria and prevent it from getting any worse...I think . Perhaps Dr.O can set that straight.
If you remember what I went through last year, here is the link, http://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/4/21052.html, I did treat with Betadine and chlorhexidine (Hibitane). I still have those little tubes of Panolog.

You could try giving your horses a stern talking to about the pitfalls of standing out in the rain and rolling in the mud .

With my situation, I had to wonder about all of the new or different things that may have caused the fur to fall out and leave oozing sores.

If anything, you could put the Betadine into a spray bottle and spot treat.
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 650
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh Susan, I definitely don't want to show my husband your last line, because that's what he wanted to do, but I thought I knew better. In hindsight...I should have listened to him...but who knew that it would SUDS like that?????

Anyway, as far as the good stern talking to about the pitfalls of rollin' in the mud and standing in the rain goes, I don't know...short of locking them inside, I'm dealing with a bunch of nature lovin', tree huggin', mud rollin', rain lovin', rambunctious rebels that refuse to come in out of the weather....unless it's in the heat of the summer, and then, and only then, will they seek shelter.

I have some Shapley's MTG. Would that be good to spot treat this with?
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Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood

Post Number: 847
Registered: 3-2001
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sherri, just to ease your discomfort about not getting the suds out . . . I dealt with rain rot and cold weather a couple of times during my VT years, and my vet told me to suds up some iodine-based teat dip (for milking) on the affected areas a couple of times a day and just leave it on over a couple of days . . . and it would rinse off in the rain, or I could wait for a warmer day (not many of those in the winter there) to rinse it off. I think one of the times I took warm water in a jug out to the shelter and rinsed and towel-dried the horse during the "heat of the day" so she could air-dry in the sunshine.
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 651
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you Holly! You have made me feel MUCH better!!!! I was imagining them running around in the rain today looking like they just jumped out of a washing machine during the WASH cycle!

The sun is about to come out here finally. What do you suggest I do next? Should I just spot treat again like Susan suggested with the Betadine scrub in a spray bottle (diluted with water or straight up???), or should I spot treat with the Shapley's MTG? Or, should I just leave them alone.

I know there's likely a variety of therapies I could do here, but for some reason, if someone here suggests something, I will feel much better actually DOING that...as opposed to being left to my own decisions, which would probably be fine...but I have a problem second guessing myself sometimes...must be an age thing......
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Susan Bilsky
Member
Username: Suzeb

Post Number: 532
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have never tried the Shapley's MTG. If it is an unopened bottle perhaps you could exchange it for some Betadine Scrub and an empty spray bottle. You can go here www.shapleys.com to read about this product and compare with the treatment for rainrot. Decide for yourself.

Alternatively, just to save your beautiful face with Hubby, you could obtain an empty hair coloring bottle with a fine tip and work the Betadine scrub into the lesions. Let sit for about 15 minutes and blot up as much as you can and let the rain take care of the rest. The Hibitane cream works much better in this situation, because it does not Suds Up. It is kind of the same as cleaning a deep pile carpet and not spreading the stain around .
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Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood

Post Number: 848
Registered: 3-2001
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, Sherri . . . to be truthful, they DID look like raggamuffins when I left it suds up like that . . . the orangey betadine almost got a greenish tinge when mixed with the dirt in their long coats . . . But, hey . . . it worked . . . and with the suds left on like that, the rain-rot didn't come back.
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Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66

Post Number: 1013
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there two types of Betadine? One is a scrub that needs to be washed off, and the other is a solution that doesn't *need* to be washed off? If this is the case, then you could just get the solution :-)
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 652
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

It'll be interesting to see what they look like tonight Holly.

Aileen, I think you're right because we have used just the solution before and decided to use the scrub this time. In hindsight....I think maybe the solution would be all we would have needed, but oh well, now we know.

Susan, we've already bought the MTG and I've done some reading on it...seems almost too good to be true..all the things they say it will do.

Anyone have any experience using it?
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Pharon Almacy
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm dealing w/rain rot too! Never occurred with my horses but this now I am & the weather just turned very cold. I found Dr. O's link very helpful.

Aileen, you are right...there's a betadine scrub (usually made with aloe) and then just "straight" betadine.

I scrubbed first & YES you use oh so little & now w/the cold weather I'm using the "straight" betadine in a spray bottle. That goes far too, couldn't tell on my thorobreds but on my white horse I couldn't believe how much one spray (out of a very small bottle) went!

I find the hardest part is picking the scabs. I really hate to inflict pain, but oh well.

Good luck!
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 653
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Pharon,
Picking the scabs off was the easiest part of he whole ordeal for us and for the horses. It didn't seem to bother the horses at all, mind you, they were in their nice warm, freshly painted white tie stalls in the barn, on nice soft straw, with their head buried in a pail of oats listening to the stereo at the time. They even have a string of Christmas lights across the tops of their stalls so it's quite festive in the barn right now! You would think they'd want to be in there when the weather's bad, which they can if they want, but they never, ever do.

Straight betadine in a spray bottle next time, that's for sure.
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Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood

Post Number: 849
Registered: 3-2001
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Awwww, Sherri . . . I can picture it . . . and would love it if I were a horse . . . I just put on some Christmas carols, even though our weather here is more like summer . . . and I can hear the neighbor blowing leaves off his driveway.

The label on the gallon jug of teat dip has long since fallen off, but I'm certain that it is pretty mild.
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Susan Bilsky
Member
Username: Suzeb

Post Number: 533
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I suppose you could run a "Scientific" experiment for us.

Use one horse for the Betadine treatment, another for the Shapley's MTG, and the other for no treatment. Of course this experiment would have to be conducted on "Virgin" lesions. Either way the percentage would still be the same. As to what conclusions you or anyone else would draw from this is speculation.

Can I come out and hang in your barn by the way, I am quite tickled by what you do .
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 654
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Friday, Nov 18, 2005 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Holly,
Haven't put on the Christmas carols just yet..the horses are still groovin' to a country beat for a couple more weeks, then I'm sure they'll start requesting Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, Frosty the Snowman and the like.

Sure Susan, you're welcome anytime! The barn light is usually on and the door is usually open! We actually hang out in our barn a lot. We even have a couch and a fridge so we can set a spell and have a coffee and visit with the horses while they have their dinner! One BIG happy family...complete with Riley the dog.

As for the scientific experiment - hmmm...I'll have to see about that one.
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D.
Member
Username: Dyduroc

Post Number: 222
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Saturday, Nov 19, 2005 - 10:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sherri, sorry you're dealing with rain rot and wanted you to know you're not alone. We had record rainfall during October (New Hampshire) and my little mud-muffin developed rain rot.

If I bring a bottle of Kahlua, can I have 'coffee' with you? The barn sounds very festive and a great place to hang out!

D.
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 655
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Monday, Nov 21, 2005 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey D,
It looks like the warm damp weather may be continuing for awhile here, and while most people are loving it since it can be hitting sub zero temperatures with lots of snow by this time, it's still warm and balmy with the occasional rain shower and I would prefer the sub zero temps with some snow. The horses coats are very thick but the GOOD NEWS is that I think we've licked the rain rot problem, IF that was even what it was. Whatever it was, it seems to have disappeared but for the occasional very small scab. We're still checking them daily and picking off any that we find and then spot treating them.

We rode yesterday, beautiful, beautiful weather and I was actually grateful for the warm wind which helped dry things up. Got my fingers crossed that the dry weather will continue.

And, PLEASE DO come for coffee...and bring your bottle of kahlua.
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 656
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Monday, Nov 21, 2005 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

D, by the way, what do you do about your rain rot problems?
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Susan Bilsky
Member
Username: Suzeb

Post Number: 540
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 22, 2005 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have to ask....,what are you spot treating with?

Shapley's MTG or Betadine Solution?

Are you able to post a picture or two while this nice weather is holding out?
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Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh

Post Number: 659
Registered: 3-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 22, 2005 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Susan, you know there's really nothing to see. Their hair is so dense, and the spots were so small, even though they were numerous. I have no idea if it was rain rot or not, but whatever it was has cleared up and is gone! We used the MTG to spot treat. Whether it was the MTG what worked or the betadine, who knows...all I know is that it's gone.

It may have very well disappeared on its own without any intervention on our part. Which I think is probably the case.
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