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Michelle K. Crowe
| | Posted on Sunday, Jan 9, 2000 - 12:26 am: |   |
Hello Dr. O and fellow members!
I live in Arizona where sand colic is very common. To hopefully reduce the chances of my horse having sand colic, I ONLY feed him in his stall via a bucket for his grain/goodies, and a corner feeder for his hay. I also have stall mats, and bed him in deep pine shavings. I have also tried every psyllium product available, and my horse simply HATES them all! Even mixing them with bran, grain, molasses, or applesauce won't convince him that psyllium is good stuff! So, psyllium use on a regular basis isn't much of an option for my horse. My concern is the possibility of my horse eating some of the pine shavings that I use for bedding, and if that could be a problem. Even though he's pretty good about eating his hay from his feeder, there's always the scraps that fall to the ground and he "vacuums" them up! Do I need to lose sleep worrying that he will colic from eating some shavings that get mixed up with the hay, or will the shavings pretty much pass though without problem? Thanks for helping this "neurotic horse Mommy" with any and all answers! Have a happy and safe year 2000! |
Sheila Vessey
| | Posted on Sunday, Jan 9, 2000 - 6:54 pm: | |
Hi Michelle,
I think that horses are pretty good about weeding out their favourite piece of hay from the shavings. If you've ever watched them, they're extremely pickly about WHICH piece they want to eat. I've personally never worried about my horses eating shavings with their hay and I don't use a feeder (for their grain they have buckets, but they eat their hay off the floor of the stall). However, never having experienced a case of sand colic -- I'm not sure if horses in these areas are more sensitive... have you asked at neighbouring farms? I have found other horse people often willing to lend a helpful hand and tell you of their experiences... |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2000 - 2:19 pm: | |
I agree with Sheila: no big deal.
DrO |
Michelle K. Crowe
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2000 - 10:17 pm: | |
Thanks for the answers! I'll no longer worry! |
Kristina Reusch
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 13, 2000 - 10:26 pm: | |
Hi Michelle,
I had a problem with my young horse and sand. I was recommended "Metamusil" (a laxative for humans). One scoop a day in their feed helps them pass the sand. A good indication of the sand level in their stomach is the rubber glove test. Take 2 balls (small) of manure and insert them in a clear surgical rubber glove. Fill the glove with warm water and let it sit about 10 minutes. Once soaked, the sand in the manure will accumulate in the bottom of the fingers in the glove. If the sand is more than 1/4 of the way up the fingers I would think of starting the Metamusil and contact your vet for her/his opinion.
Good luck, this worked for me |
Eva B. Orndoff
| | Posted on Monday, Mar 20, 2000 - 12:36 pm: | |
Kristina--I think you'll find the horsey psyllium is quite a bit cheaper than Metamusil. I've used Equi-Aide and Sand Clear 99. The Sand Clear is easier to feed and there's less waste. Another hint--it's cheaper to buy it through the catalogs, even with shipping charges, than it is at your neighborhood feed store. The best price I've found is $3 to $3.50 a pound. That said, the "latest" research says that psyllium (including Metamusil) isn't all that effective in clearing sand. I'll tell you--there's as much conflicting info about horse health treatments and diets as there is about human health concerns. Good luck. |
Les Potter
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 10, 2000 - 2:37 pm: | |
I have been getting sawdust to put on the ground where I corral my horse. It cuts down on the stink drastically. This is important since it is the yard of a neighbor, and the smell drifts into his window. Not wanting to spoil a good thing, I want to keep the stink down to a tolerable level. The sawdust does a good job of this.
However, ever since I have used the sawdust, my horse has had episodes of collic. I am suspecting the sawdust (actually, more like shavings for its coarsness) as being the culprit. Does this sound logical, or should I look for another source? The sawdust is from a variety of woods, including Eucalyptus, Pine, Mohagany, and various hardwoods. It is natural wood, with no chemicals. Could it be a problem? Thanks |
Administration
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 11, 2000 - 7:08 am: | |
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Barbara J. Underwood
New Member
Username: Barbju
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 24, 2003 - 3:51 pm: | |
I was wondering if there is anything better than psyllium for sand clearing. How often should we sand clear the horses. We live in California and the soil is pretty sandy. We have had instances of colic not sure if it is due to sand or not. |
SHARON SMITH
New Member
Username: Horselov
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 24, 2003 - 4:29 pm: | |
HI
I have had the problem of sand colic also I feed the psylliam in grain mixed with a good amt of liquid molasses with no problem with any horse eating it. Do not feed the whole grain ration at the beginning. Mix and feed about 2 cups mixed with any sand colic med and molisses enough to coat everything. Don't make soup though. In the spring and the fall they tend to eat roots and the increase of sand colic is higher. They choose this over hay such as 1st cutting and so I add some second cutting to offset it as much as I can. Good luck |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 9523
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 24, 2003 - 7:17 pm: | |
We explain about how sand is cleared, efficacy of psyillium, and effective prevention mechanisms in the article on this subject that is associated with this forum. Go to the top of this page click on » Sand Colic » and then you can access the article.
DrO |
PAM LEVY
New Member
Username: infiniti
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008 - 3:48 pm: | |
My vet told me to put my horse on psyllium for sand accumulation. My horse won't eat any psyllium products...at all! I tried rice bran which he loves and used a ratio of 1 part psyllium (ground) to 30+ parts rice bran the way he likes it...soupy. Took two slurps, made gagging noises and then walked away. I did some research on ground flax seed. Would that work? |
Julie Masner
Member
Username: juliem
Post Number: 401
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008 - 11:41 pm: | |
Pam, rice bran is usually palatable enough to feed dry. The psyllium turns "yucky" when it's wet. Start out by adding just a little and each day increase the amount of psyllium until you have them on the full daily dose. I've also added the fine alfalfa leaves to the mix. If you can, leave them in a stall or enclosed area for awhile with just the mix to eat. Hunger is a great motivator. Also, there are different brands of psyllium--mine "like" "Sand Clear". You may have to experiment a bit, but by starting with just a little and increasing slowly, they'll come around. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 20376
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 2, 2008 - 6:32 am: | |
Pam it is not clear that these products are beneficial at all. Though there use is sandy areas is almost universal be sure to pay attention to exposure. Recommendations are given in the article on Sand Colic that you can select off the navigation bar at the top of this page.
DrO |
PAM LEVY
New Member
Username: infiniti
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 2, 2008 - 12:36 pm: | |
Thank you DrO for your quick response. I've always been aware of horses ingesting sand while eating and have taken the appropriate steps. I've read the articles on this site and I will make sure I exercise him more. But I'm completely confused when it comes to using psyllium products (not that my horse would eat them)for sand removal or as a preventative. Are there any products to be given that would help as a preventative? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 20384
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 3, 2008 - 7:58 am: | |
I thought my previous post answered this question Pam. Is there something I am missing?
DrO |
PAM LEVY
New Member
Username: infiniti
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 3, 2008 - 12:38 pm: | |
DrO,to clear up any confusion on my part are you saying that products such as psyllium, flax seed, etc., has no beneficial effect on sand accumulation? I was confused by all the products (psyllium for one) that claim to prevent sand colic. |
Wiley Gillmor
Member
Username: wgillmor
Post Number: 96
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 3, 2008 - 12:58 pm: | |
Hi Pam,
I'll try to save DrO a response. What he says above is "it is not clear that these products are beneficial at all". He says substantially the same thing the article.
However, as he constantly tries to teach us, this is not the same as saying "it is clear that these products are not beneficial at all".
(By the way, I use Psyllium on my vet's advice despite this. My horse will eat anything you ask him too, so I am no help on that problem.)
DrO may want to amplify or correct.
Regards,
Wiley |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 20395
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 4, 2008 - 6:48 am: | |
Thanks Wiley,
That is correct. I use to state that research indicates that psyllium is not beneficial as this was the conclusion of what I consider is still the best run study to date (Vet Surg. 1998 Nov-Dec;27(6):547-54. Failure of psyllium mucilloid to hasten evaluation of sand from the equine large intestine. Hammock PD, Freeman DE, Baker GJ. Department of Veterinary Clinical Medicine, University of Illinois, College of Veterinary Medicine, Urbana 61802, USA.).
However since that time several other less well designed studies have found a possible beneficial effect. The studies are flawed by lack of a untreated control and the results in the psyllium treated horses comparable to the results of the rate of sand evacuation in the untreated controls of the study quoted above.
DrO |
PAM LEVY
New Member
Username: infiniti
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 - 2:38 pm: | |
DrO, I just read a new study regarding sand colic in the online version of "The Horse Health E-Newsletter. I would like to email this to you if you aren't a subscriber. They were testing the efficacy of a commercial psyllium/probiotic/prebiotic product(Assure & Assure Plus. It appears they had good success with removal of sand when management alone was not enough. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 20500
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 - 6:54 am: | |
Hello Pam,
I attended the lecture at the AAEP that this article was based on and it is one of those studies I mention above that I believe had a weak design. The control method was inadequate as it did not control for the changes in routine and changes in environment over the 42 day project. Also several confounding variables with several products introduced at the time of the experiment confuses what is going on. But mostly I found the finding that fecal sand was elevated at the end of the study puzzling. If the horses were stable before the research project began, as indicated by the lack of history of problems, and the product increased fecal sand output, would you not expect by the end of a month there would be less sand in the gut rather than continued elevated amounts in the fecal decants? I guess you can figure it might take longer but from what we know about sand clearance in horses this does not seem likely. The best explanation I can think of for this observation is the horses were ingesting more sand over the course of the experiment which was not contolled for.
DrO |
PAM LEVY
New Member
Username: infiniti
Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 - 1:33 pm: | |
Again, thank you for your prompt reply. It sounded like they were on the right path. |
Edward Walker
New Member
Username: darlenh1
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 18, 2008 - 6:29 am: | |
Hi Folks,
I too live in an area with a fair amount of sand in the soil. I also have taken two to three fecal balls and done the glove and water test. The amount of sand was not much when I began testing every week, but I was still concerned. I am now using rice bran with nothing mixed in with the rice bran at three cups per 1000 lb horse three times a week. I have two horses, and since I started the rice bran regimen, the sand has been reduced to a few grains per horse which is a significant improvement. I no longer have concerns for either horse. Research or no, rice bran has been wonderful. The results were instantaneous after two weeks at three times per week. Also, my horses love rice bran. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 20510
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 18, 2008 - 11:07 am: | |
Again Edward research is iffy as to whether the addition of bran helpful so the question remains would you have seen these changes without the addition of the bran consider the possible opposite explanation: the bran causes more sand to be left behind so there is less in feces and the extra sand is left behind in the bowel? These are unanswered questions and I don't pretend to know which is the case I just want everyone to keep their feelers in the air and consider the difference between what is known (more sand..less sand) and what is conjectured (the reason for the observation).
DrO |
Edward Walker
Member
Username: darlenh1
Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 18, 2008 - 11:47 am: | |
Good point doctor, and I shall consider it, but my use of rice bran is not from research studies but the advice of others.
Edward |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: vickiann
Post Number: 620
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 18, 2008 - 10:20 pm: | |
Have been around and around on this issue and given the research, I have tried to find the courage to give up my week long course each month of psyllium for my boys. But as Dr. O acknowledged, "if it ain't broke don't fix it." I had tried various other sand reduction remedies and I live on a Florida sand hill. There is no place that your horse could possibly ingest more sand than the environment in which I live. The Veterinarians in this area pay attention to the scientific studies but most still advocate psyllium because of the results that they see with their clients. As I see it, a very important factor to successful sand elimination is access to as much forage as a horse could want. The forage allows their system to work to the best advantage and pushes the sand through. I have done my own personal tests and have observed that more sand is pushing out of a horse's system on day 5 or 6 than on day 1 or 2 of a treatment. If you live on a sand hill, I think that ANYTHING that you can do to facilitate your horse's digestion is a good thing -- probiotics, plenty of forage, psyllium. In years past I tried bran (not good results), etc., but the week long course of psyllium each month has been the most valuable, in my experience, and I make this judgement based upon colic problems. The feed that I use has probiotics in it and the last two winters I have supplemented my coastal hay with Triple Crown Safe Starch Grass Forage, which seems to have an equalizing effect on my boys' systems (NO colic episodes) -- each horse is different, but with the forage as a supplement, they all achieve a more "normal" digestive outcome and also do not wish to seek out as many nasty, bad, or potentially poisonous weeds from my pastures. For years I used Sand Clear, but one of my horses developed a dislike for it. I could eventually get him to eat it each day by grinding feed pellets, flax or oats and mixing that in with the psyllium, but it was challenging. I switched over to Equi Aid again, and that has been accepted. |
