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Discussion on Coppertox and Dogs

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Martha L. Moore
Member
Username: Gldilox

Post Number: 10
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

We were putting some Coppertox on my gelding's feet this morning and used a hoof nail to clean out the top of the applicator. I picked the nail up with a kleenex and sat it in the farrier's box.

A few minutes later, I noticed that the dog (a lab, of course) must have grabbed the kleenex/nail: I don't know that he got any on his tongue but I don't know that he didn't.

He seems fine - pink gums - but I am a nervous mother. Does anyone know about the tolerance for this stuff with animals?
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Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood

Post Number: 859
Registered: 3-2001
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Martha, Coppertox is pretty toxic stuff . . . but I don't know how much a dog can get from the tip of a nail.
I'd call the Poison Control Center and tell them the ingredients . . . and the amount the dog (weight of dog may be important here, too) got on his tongue . . . I might feed the dog some milk and dog food depending on what the Poison Center says.
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Martha L. Moore
Member
Username: Gldilox

Post Number: 11
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I finally managed to get through to two different vets - with the holiday and everything, all the offices are closed.

Both seem to think that he didn't ingest anything (there's no green stain on his tongue) and anything that touched his mucous membranes would burn: I haven't seen evidence of any irritation in his mouth.

"Barn Dog Dot Com" is an 85-lb Black Lab who has a history of eating inappropriate things and making multiple vet visits. He has a predilection for my underwear (just threw up another pair two days ago) and has even survived a snake bite. I try to keep things away from him but don't always succeed.

I even called his trainer (he's a hunting lab) who tells me that I'm going to have to try harder if I want to kill him!
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Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne

Post Number: 134
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Martha,
Labs get into everything don't they? Mine loves tissues too. In fact he ate that silica gel you find in shoes boxes two weeks ago and we had to induce vomiting with hydrogen peroxide but he ingested it directly..(knowing how you feel as a worried Mom) I looked up animal poisen control but couldn't find much.
From your explanation it doesn't seem like he got any even if he licked the tissue.
I thought people were going to think I was a horrible dog parent when mine ingested that stuff but when I tell them he is a slightly less than two year old lab...they say...Oh Labs...they stay in the puppy stage, meaning they are immature, for longer than other breeds, good luck with him! I guess everyone who has ever had a lab knows how we feel....mine will eat a wad of dog hair on the floor...
Anyway, I will say a prayer for your guy just in case. My prediction is that he will be just fine.

With a dog who eats pretty much anything thing keep a bottle of Hydrogen Peroxide on hand just in case you ever get a vet and he tells you to induce vomiting because I had to run down the street in the snow with wet head looking for a neighbor who had some. I was lucky and found some at the first house so we were able to get it down him quickly.

If that wasn't bad enough I didn't feed him the rest of the evening just to be safe and he got in the garbage and got the tissue that had the silica gel I picked up off the floor...needless to say it was a long night.

Now my husband finally agrees that while he is getting better with getting into stuff the kennel is safest place to be at night when he is not under watchful eyes!

Don't worry about killing him...they say they will eventually grow out of it! I say GOOD because tissues out of the garbage can only taste good for so long!

Have a very Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

v/r
Corinne
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Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne

Post Number: 135
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Speaking of their prediliction to eat things....I found an ingenious way capitalize on that...to feed him his heart worm meds (we don't have the beef flavored kind) in pill form...Instead of trying to shove it down his throat I just hold it in my hand and pretend I am going to offer it to the other dog...he almost snapped it out of my hand last night...Didn't even know I tricked him he ate it so fast....
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Martha L. Moore
Member
Username: Gldilox

Post Number: 12
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Barn Dog is 3 1/2 now - I don't know how I survived the first year or so. It was a major step when we could keep the doors open to all the rooms in the house and leave his crate door open at night. If we're gone, though, he stays in his crate!

We do keep peroxide on hand and have used it to make him vomit - such as when he got into the truck of some workmen and ate their cigarettes. They wouldn't have told me but I caught them chasing him around.

The funniest time was when I had a dressage clinic right after Christmas and someone brought a big two-layer box of cream filled chocolates. I sat them in the garage and forgot about them temporarily. Barn Dog found them and proceeded to work his way through both layers - he would taste them first to se if he liked them. He wasn't fond of the orange flavored ones and would leave them half eaten. Cream filled chocolates do not make for pretty vomit.
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Pharon Almacy
New Member
Username: Kipp

Post Number: 3
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

This is great info! I never heard of the peroxide but luckily always have lots on hand. How do you manage to get the dog to consume it? Syringe?
Happy and Safe Thanksgiving to All!}
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Brandi Reinert
Member
Username: Brandi

Post Number: 85
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

That's right Pharon, I use a 60-cc large-tip (catheter tip?) syringe and squirt it down into the throat. It only takes a minute to get results. I use about 50 cc on my 60-lb doberman, and that does the trick. I would assume you adjust accordingly to their size/weight. A turkey baster would probably work just as well and has a similar capacity, but probably not graduated with measurements.
Hopefully you'll never need it, but I guess that's the thing about dogs ...you'll need it!
Happy Thanksgiving to you.
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose

Post Number: 967
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks for the info. We have a lab-mix (looks and acts like a lab) who at the tender age of 12 still eats tissues out of the trash. What he can't eat, he licks! Can't believe after several trips to the vet I have never heard about Hydrogen Peroxide! Good to know.
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Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne

Post Number: 136
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sara...Rocky is a lab mix as well...totally digs tissues...with your response I am getting the feeling he might not ever grow out of it. Oh well...we love him anyway.

Pheron...the vet's office I spoke to didn't specify amount but it didn't take much to induce vomiting and I was cautious about the amount. I didn't have the luxury of having a syringe handy so my neighbor and I held his mouth open and poured a small amount on his tongue which he promptly swallowed. It took about 4-5 minutes to make him purge.

I presume as with human poison ingestion cases there are certain thinks you don't want to bring back up...like caustic substances such as lye...because they could burn as much coming back up the esophagus as they did going down. I would give it only under the recommendation of a vet or poison control but have it handy just in case!
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joj
Member
Username: Jojo15

Post Number: 605
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 - 4:28 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

The silica gel packets are dessicants. They are not toxic to animals. I remember having a similar experience with my house pig. He ate the little thingys. what a dessicant does though is create double its weight in moisture. I can't remember if they said make them drink water or stop it for a few hours and let it pass, though.

The peroxide only works if you are there at that moment to get them to bring up what they just ate. If your out for a few hours, come home and see doggy got into something bad, but you don't know how long its been, i don't think peroxide will work.

i keep activated charcoal in my emergency kit for the dogs/goats/ pig, etc. Once ingested all poison will bind to the charcoal. You can find it in paste format on Hoeggars goat supply. That stuff is awesome.

NOT sure about giving it to horses, though.
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Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne

Post Number: 137
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Joj,
Hello there! So you have a house pig that has an appetite like our dogs? Pigs are awesome!
Anyway, I was aware that Silica is a dessicant and not toxic itself, but was told it's rather dangerous because it will remove fluid from the GI tract possibly causing other problems such as dehydrating foodstuffs in the stomach, increasing risk for impaction. I would presume that it has the potential to damage to the lining of he upper GI tract if it gets stuck and dehydrates that well? (that's only my speculation). Hopefully it's as benign as your vet suggested.
Anyway, I was lucky enough to catch him eating it as your right you do have to take measures (once again if prescribed) immediately after ingestion...I am glad I did catch him or he would have eaten the evidence! Glad to hear your pig did well after his episode.

Interesting about the activated charcoal...I have given it to humans...messy....but didn't know it was used in animals.

Well...Rocky isn't the only one who is going to eat everything....I am going to today!

Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I am thankful for all the knowledge you have all imparted upon me....and I especially love the funny anecdotes about our beloved animals.

v/r
Corinne
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 14183
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Last night I walked into my small animal hospital and there was activated charcoal everywhere, on the staff, Dr. Mitchell etc... and it does not clean up easily. A large dog had come in and had ingested coffee and cigarettes, a lot of it and had begun having tremors. After the peroxide treatment above they followed it up with charcoal. A couple of comments about above:

I agree that it sounds like there was not enough CuSO4 ingested to harm Barn Dog. The use of a emetic (something to make the dog vomit) on poisoning is not always indicated and often contraindicated if the substance is caustic but not a toxin: the damage done to the esophagus can be a greater threat than that done to the gut. If you are uncertain and have time call poisoning control to be sure. We have numbers on our poison page, Equine Diseases » Poisons , Venoms & Poisonous Plants » Poisons, Poisonous Plants, and Venemous Animals.

If you are unable to check: emetics for toxins on conscience, coordinated animals, but activated charcoal or mineral oil for caustic substances. The best in all circumstances that are gotten to quickly is stomach pumping.
DrO
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Shawna G
Member
Username: Qh4me

Post Number: 77
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Friday, Nov 25, 2005 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

What is it with Labs. I have a yellow lab, and a few weeks ago, he decided to eat about 50 feet of berber (sp?) carpet, not the complete carpet, but 50 feet of the yarn. I guess he was playing and pulled at the carpet, and got a piece of it, and decided to pull it, and it kept unravelling, and then he ate it - ALL! He was at the vet clinic for 4 days. He ended up passing it all, but they were afraid it would get tangled in there .

I never heard of the peroxide trick before. Good tidbit of information. Thanks.
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Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood

Post Number: 861
Registered: 3-2001
Posted on Friday, Nov 25, 2005 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Note to self: No labs. With all the concerns that come with horse care, I don't want the extra worries of canine intestines compacted with tangled carpet, or stained and corroded by toxic thrush medications . . . Geesh! It would seem that farm labs might have pretty short life-spans?

Springers are bouncy and sometimes sulky . . . but my carpet and horse meds are intact . . . at least, for now.
Sir Percival Putnam, Esquire
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Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne

Post Number: 140
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Friday, Nov 25, 2005 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Holly...that's a good shot of your dog! How cute!
Shawna I am glad yours is okay...I think I will keep Rocky away from the berber remnants in the basement just in case.
Speaking of chewing on things we had a two week running streak with Rocky being GOOD...perhaps he knew I was talking about him on these posts...came home from Christmas shopping today and he chewed up the vacuum cord....I mean who were we to leave him in the same room with the vacuum he didn't pay attention to the last 300 times he was left alone with it?
What do they wake up one day and decide chewing on objects they could care less about before would be fun? This has been one expensive free adoption...he has eaten Italian Shoes (doesn't like Payless) and expensive duvets...one time he ate half of a $20...
Oh Well..back to the mall tomorrow. Too bad we will have missed the sale today at Sears!

Have a great night everyone!

v/r
Corinne

P.S. Labs (once they get over the difficult years) are awesome...the family lab we adopted had three homes by the time he was five and he was the best dog ever in his older years....I miss old Jake!
This will be Rocky's second (and last) and he is not yet two. Cheers to all lab owers...we love and endure and wouldn't trade them for the world!
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose

Post Number: 970
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Friday, Nov 25, 2005 - 11:49 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Our lab mix, like all our animals except the horses, just "arrived" or was "found." Austin was a puppy huddled under a sage bush sixty miles from the nearest town (Austin,NV) when he just happened to be noticed somehow by my husband who was speeding down the highway at 80 mph! He turned around, picked him up, fed him some canned meat, and called and said we had a new dog. No one warned me about a lab's propensity for odd things nor their oral fixation. He is totally weird about hand lotion, soap, and anything in the trash. However, he is the sweetest thing and very protective, a great companion in the truck, and loves the barn and horses. So....what can one do except love him to death inspite of his vices!
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joj
Member
Username: Jojo15

Post Number: 606
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, Nov 26, 2005 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hollywood, your crazy.... I'm a E. springer spaniel mom, of two. One just passed of old age. But not before ingesting and going to the hospital on various occasions thru out the years. My dulcinaya is turning 16 years old december, and just today got into the garbage and ate all the chicken bones, all the egg shells, all the old pasta, and then had the nerve to whine thru dinner... like she was starving. Those two were / are the biggest piggies i have ever had. But on that thought they are the best darn dogs in the universe... outside of mutts.

One time my two girls got into pure sugarcane. I had brought a bag home during my healthy syndrome (very short lived). One 5lb bag of sugarcane created 50lbs of molasses in my dogs. My vet told me he had never pumped more stuff out of a dog than my two.... needless to say i went back to just sugar... All cupboard doors have child proof locks on them. Garbage is on the counter, and they learned how to open the fridges that weren't split down the middle.

Oh, and my piggy and goats got into the SWEET PDZ the other night. They looked just awful. Well like scarface...LOL. Scared the you know what out of me... I called the company after i got on the internet, what a Great company though, a rep actually called me back to let me know its all natural and not to be concerned. Just give them lots of water.

give me 10 minutes i could think of more...grin.
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Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood

Post Number: 866
Registered: 3-2001
Posted on Sunday, Nov 27, 2005 - 2:09 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . you think maybe I should be watching my pup more carefully? Come to think of it . . . there WAS the time that he ate a whole, warm blueberry cobbler off the kitchen counter . . . and he WILL clean up the cat food if I forget to pick the kitty dishes up off the floor . . . But he really hasn't ever eaten anything that wasn't food . . . yet.
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WTG
Member
Username: Angel77

Post Number: 89
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Sunday, Nov 27, 2005 - 6:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

To All,

I have a 4yr old female British White Lab. As a puppy, before she was old enough to be around the horses I would leave her in my large car while I rode one horse. ETA about 30 minutes. She was 3 months old. One day I was in the ring riding. Which is close to where I parked and separated by a 25 ft wall type fence.

All of a sudden I hear a horn honking. Once, twice, by the third time I realized, it was my car! I got off the horse. Put him in the cross ties. Open the gate to find my baby lab Sara Ann Marie in the drivers seat. The headlights are on. The windshield wipers are going full blast. Both devices to operate the lights and the wipers have teeth marks on them. And to top it all off, she chewed the area around the locks and the handles on the car as if she could unlock the door to get out. She chewed the steering wheel, not so bad, but bad enough.

Thank God she did not find out that an air bag could have killed her. I felt like an idiot. I got another car the next month.

That was the last time she was ever in a car un-supervised. A friend who lived close would take her kind of like doggie day care while I was at the horse. Maybe a couple of months of daily doggie day care.

It was only a little while before she was old enough to understand the horses. I tied a lead rope around my body at the ranch. So she had to follow me everywhere. That took about a week. Ever since then she knows one of her jobs is to stay close to me at all times while at the ranch.

Now she is best friends with any horse who will have her. We haven't used a leash for 3yrs now.

I have learned that with labs(Sara is my first)that they must have a specific routine or job to help one and or ones family for them to feel acknowledged and accepted. These labs always want to have a project. When they do they are very proud of themselves. I have seen all kinds of labs who are extremely well trained and very happy. Sara Ann is definitely a happy dog!!

She is really good with the horses now. She loves children. She knows her job in my life. Which also means she knows she gets her play date with her neighbor lucky(2y/o akita/labmix) at least 3-5 times a week.

she is happy with her life so she behaves extraordinarily well. Even at the horse shows. She is extremely calm around the mass of commotion.

Once one can get past the first two years. A lab is the best dog ever. At least mine is constantly surprising me. Labs are really very smart. I swear my dog speaks English. She knows where we are going in the car all the time.

On the other side of that coin, other labs have quirky behavioral problems. If they do not get the attention they need early on they seem to develop bad behavior.

A friend who is a quite a bit older than me got a lab. The dog did not turn out so well because she was unable to properly train the dog on a consistent basis. It really broke my heart. Sara Ann used like to play with him.

He has demolished the entire 1/8 acre of beautifully manicured backyard. He has chewed lounge chairs both wicker and chaise, every plant in a pot has been disassembled, every chime hanging has been destroyed, the garbage can has to be replaced every month. He destroys it.

Here are two stories that have ended so differently.

Labs are a breed apart from any other. The dog either gets or he is a terror.

I have heard of labs getting into an array of things we would never think would appeal to them. Subsequently killing them.

Everyone please watch as closely as possible as a labs goal in life is to put everything unimaginable into their mouths no matter what their age.

Good luck to all labs owners!

WTG
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Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne

Post Number: 142
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Sunday, Nov 27, 2005 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

WTG,
Thanks for the wonderful anecdotes. My I would not have been happy with the car...Rocky gnawed on the seat belt when he was 4 months old...frayed a mm of the edge....I saw that and he never was allowed in the car without the kennel. I mean how can you replace a seat belt?
Anyway, I hope that Rocky will some day be a barn dog...currently we are working the problem of running away so that won't be anytime soon. Unfortunately on base you have to get your dog if he gets out of the yard so he would make me run miles to get him...then one day the mosquitoes were awful so I said fine...go...and he came right back. Since then we have reinforced sit in front of any door and three times the back gate has blown open since then and he has stayed put so we are on the right track.
We are taking him to obedience school in Jan...not so much for him as for us...because I think we sometimes enable the behavior. At least this way my husband and I can learn to do things together because at this point if I try to train him on certain tasks if my husband doesn't do the same thing (just because he doesn't know) it just confuses the dog and regresses my work...so we are all going to school.
WTG I will be in touch when we are ready for the barn to get a few pointers...he is still extremely immature right now so all I have done is walk him on a leash up to his brother horse's stall to sniff him.
Speaking of keeping an eye...the Christmas tree is up and there is a working train under it....it's dog toy heaven...guess who is sitting at my feet and will do so for the next month! Good luck Lab owners with the Christmas decorations.

Well..off to lessons. Have a great rest of the weekend everyone.

v/r
Corinne
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Fran C
Member
Username: Canter

Post Number: 343
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Monday, Nov 28, 2005 - 8:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Growing up, we had a German Shortharied Pointer. Wonderful family dog and quite a character. We owned a remote cabin in Northern Maine and had left Boomer in his crate to go to the nearest town for groceries. Got home hours later and found the dog out of his crate--he had eaten half a small wall of fiberglass insulation, part of a rug and chewed to bits the lower steps of a driftwood staircase going up to a loft. Being miles away from civilisation, all my Dad could think to do was stuff all the bread we had just bought down the dog to try to cushion as much as possible the insulation & wood splinters in Boomers stomach...and hope for the best.

...Boomer lived to be my Dad's loyal hunting dog and wonderful family friend for 13 more years.

Amazing what these critters can ingest and survive!
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