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Alicia Kost
Member
Username: Aannk
Post Number: 557
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 1, 2006 - 4:02 pm: |   |
I wanted to get opinions on a quandary I am in.
My mare Lilly has always been a bit stiff. She was raced 21 times in two years and had been given no time off and started fox hunting and had only just come to the dealer when I bought her as a 6 year old.
I immediately put her on joint supplements. I never really noticed a difference with her, but I started her up right away, so maybe I missed it.
Anyway, a few years back, about 3, she was kicked in the hock, so I got both injected. The vet at that time said the fluid was very thin and that she had a hard time getting the needle in the right hock.
I kept Lilly on the supplements and continued to ride her after the injection, which made a marked difference.
She got some time off to be bred, and came home after her dystocia this past May. I started her up and she was remarkably more stiff than before, but there were several things wrong physically with her, not the least of which was she had been fed incorrectly for her EPSM for several months at the breeding farm.
So, I started her up on her diet again and started her on oral HA (I use Hyaluronex, I think). I have been working her steadily back into shape, and she looks remarkable. It has taken upping her times ridden a week to 5 from 4 and keeping her completely off carrots apples and grain, but she is better.
However, she still is stiff. So, I asked my vet to inject her again as I figured she was getting worse with age.
Lo and behold, my vet told me her joint fluid is much better than three years ago, and the joint space was easier to get into. She said there was no sign of joint disease she could see from the injecting.
So, my mare is no better after the injections, which also makes me believe there wasn't an issue with them.
Here is my quandary.
Do I keep her on the HA, though I never saw a difference from the start since she has been on it, or do I change to a supplement with G-C which is proven to help joints? Do I take her completely off joint supplements? If it isn't joints, and she is being managed according to EPSM guidelines, what else could it be?
I know that is a lot of questions, but I don't want to stop the HA if it has reversed any damage, but I also don't want to throw away 2 dollars and 30 cents a day if it is doing no good.
She is also on Vit E and Selenium, a daily wormer, a multi vitamin, and a digestive aid. She only gets alfalfa pellets and alfalfa hay inside and grass hay outside, so I figure she doesn't get a varied enough diet to be without vitamins.
Alicia |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14667
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 2, 2006 - 9:53 am: | |
The problem I think is the way your vet is assessing joint health. The ease with which you find a narrow joint space is subject to lots of factors and the idea that oral HA supplementation would reverse the amount of bony change secondary to osteoarthritis is...peculiar. Experience and research shows that from just time to time you are just not holding your mouth right and have to work to find that narrow joint space, while next time it is a breeze. Think of a sticky lock that for the key to turn you have to in just right. Some times it turns right away while other times something is just not right.
I would be interested in the values of the joint fluid that have changed but these values almost for sure reflect the joints recent experiences with exercise and trauma than your joint supplement.
We suggest you follow our recommendations in the article on joint supplements as this is the latest information available.
DrO |
Alicia Kost
Member
Username: Aannk
Post Number: 559
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 2, 2006 - 12:27 pm: | |
Well, my vet didn't say the joint had changed, she just said the fluid was the correct consistency for a healthy joint and was the right color. The last time she had them done it was thin and watery and not as clear as it should have been.
It was me assuming the joint supplement had helped. My vet doesn't even know what I give Lilly.
I think the main reason I determined that her joints aren't her issue is that after the injections and an intramuscular Legend, she was no different. The last time, she had been kicked in the hock, and the treatment made her better within two days. We also did x rays at that time (about 3 years ago) and her hocks were not pristine, but "very" clean.
I will re read the article, I read it in the past, but as you say, it probably has changed a lot since then!
Thanks
Alicia |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14676
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 3, 2006 - 7:31 am: | |
Not that much Alicia but it is different than what you are doing. Some of the recommended amounts have some caveats that more may be better but the advice we were giving last year has stood the test of time, or at least the time of a few months.
DrO |
Alicia Kost
Member
Username: Aannk
Post Number: 561
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 3, 2006 - 9:50 am: | |
What is different? The fact that I am only using HA? I did order some supplement that contains
Yucca 5,500 mg
Glucosamine HCl 99% (min.) 5,000 mg
Chondroitin Sulfate 95% (min.) 2,000 mg
Calcium Ascorbate (min.) 2,250 mg
Manganese (min.) 200 mg
Are these levels good? I just don't want to stop the HA if it is actually doing any good. It does cost 2.30 a day, though, and if there is NO WAY it can be doing any good, I will stop it. If I see an improvement on the other supplement, I will take her off the HA and keep her on that one, but if I don't, not sure what to do?
That is my confusion.
Oh, on a slightly different note, are any of those ingredients bad for pregnant mares?
Alicia |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14692
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Feb 4, 2006 - 10:25 am: | |
Maybe you could not find the article Alicia, it is at Equine Medications and Nutriceuticals » Anti-inflammatories (NSAID's, Steroids, Arthritis Rx) » The Joint Protective Treatments. It gives recommended ingredients and suggested levels. As these recommendations may change I prefer to refer you to the latest information rather than printing something here that may not be correct in the future.
The rule of thumb is if you feel confident something is helping you should stick with it.
Though I do not know of any work on the safety of these substances at this concentration in pregnant mares, at this time I believe all the above are safe at these levels except the yucca which I do not know.
DrO |
