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Discussion on Cellulitis

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Alicia Kost
Member
Username: Aannk

Post Number: 562
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Friday, Feb 3, 2006 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, my mare has decided that life is not hard enough for me, and she developed cellulitis on her left hind from her scratches. I read your article, Dr. O., and the information that says a dermatitis can cause it and the description of the symptoms fit her exactly. She has scratches on both hind feet (been treating it for about a month now with no success) and yesterday morning when turned out was swollen on her left hind to about the hock. When I got there yesterday afternoon, she could barely walk, but did put equal pressure on both feet. I proceeded to wash her feet with malaseb (a medicated shampoo) and while cleaning it off, noticed the swelling went all the way up to in front of her udder and was hard, hot, and painful. Temperature was 103. So, after calling the vet, started her on antibiotics and bute, and cold hosed her and dried up her legs and put MTG on her scratches.
I looked all over her hoof and leg, and besides a few small chunks missing from her foot, which were not remarkable, and her scratches, did not find a localized area that indicated a wound.
My main concern is exercise, as she really needs to be ridden 5 times a week or she loses condition because of her EPSM. Can she be ridden when she is no longer lame and her fever goes away?
Alicia
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Chris Stevens
Member
Username: Stevens

Post Number: 6
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Friday, Feb 3, 2006 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Alicia,

I've just gotten scratches under control on my horse. I had good results using a 1% hydrocortisone cream on the lesions. I washed with Betadine, GENTLY rubbed the scabs off with paper towel, dried the area and applied the cream. I started using Aveeno, but ended up with the Target brand equivalent. It knocked the scratches down in a couple of days.

Regarding exercise; I rode my horse with the scratches-induced slight swelling, he was never lame, and ended up with a ruptured hematoma. See my post from yesterday. Now I'm doing pressure wraps for another week or so before we go back to work.

Good Luck,
Chris
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 14683
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Friday, Feb 3, 2006 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The fever worries me a little Alicia as it is not typical for scratches so if this does not improve quickly reassess. Chris is right when these things cause such a big reaction cortisone will bring it under control quickly, though the bute may make a big difference too. I like the Malaseb to clean but would prefer Panalog (obtained from your vet) as a treatment like our article....opps where has our article on Scratches gone? I will have it up in the morning.
DrO
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Alicia Kost
Member
Username: Aannk

Post Number: 566
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Monday, Feb 6, 2006 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dr O,
The article on swellings you have posted says dermatitis can result in cellulitis which causes elevated rectal temperatures. I believe she developed the cellulitis from the scratches.
The antibiotic and bute and cold hosing therapy with riding has worked. The swelling is not totally gone, but it is minute in comparison to what it was.
I have to call the vet to see how long I should continue the antibiotics, don't want to stop them too soon. She originally said three days after the swelling is gone, but it has now been 4 days and the swelling isn't totally gone, but she doesn't have a fever any more and though she starts off a bit stiff when ridden, the swelling goes down and she gets a lot more comfortable after the ride.
Alicia
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amanda
Member
Username: Chellis6

Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Monday, Feb 6, 2006 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Alicia I went thru the same thing with our stallion in Sept. His leg was swollen from the hoof all the way up the whole leg. Tempt Would not stand on it Scared us half to death. The vet came gave him dexameth sodum phos 4mg/ml, penicellin G procanine 100ml. tetanus . We started to give him smx tmp 980 mg.For two weeks them . The next day some swelling went down, And was walking on it. He went out for a 1/2 walks. After two weeks swelling went down some but not all. So vet spoke to cornell. ANd he went on the smz for six weeks this time. His legs where rapped with standing wraps each night and a hock wrap. Which also helped greatly. After the completion of the smz He was leg was back to normal.My suggestion is if you can leave her on it a little longer . Only from my experiece after two weeks of him being on. I would just like to say he is back to normal now. But what a scare
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Alicia Kost
Member
Username: Aannk

Post Number: 568
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Monday, Feb 6, 2006 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Amanda,
WOW, she is not nearly that bad, thank goodness. She has been ridden every day except the day it started, and each ride, she is less swollen at the end than at the beginning. I am not going out today, she is getting the day off, but the barn manager says you can barely tell the leg is swollen at all now. I guess we caught it in time, which was a note of import on Dr O's article on cellulitis.
I hate to keep her on antibiotics any longer than necessary, but I also don't want a recurrance. I intend on keeping her on for at least 3 days after the swelling is completely gone, which will be at least till Friday, which is 8 days total so far.
Alicia
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 14711
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Monday, Feb 6, 2006 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

All you say is true Alicia but the fever keeps in the list of rule outs other diseases diseases that will not be treated with antibiotics such as purpura. Since your horse is greatly improved I will not worry as much. Complete resolution of the swelling might take some time, with your vet's permission 3 days past the time the fever goes down is usually fine.
DrO
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Alicia Kost
Member
Username: Aannk

Post Number: 569
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 7, 2006 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dr. O.,
Thanks for that, I will call her to see. The fever went down the day after we started her on antibiotics and has not come back. So, that would be 4 days without fever now.
I will call her today.
Thanks!
Alicia
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WTG
Member
Username: Angel77

Post Number: 160
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dear Alicia,

My horse had a bout with scratches a few months ago. Although it was not accompanied by fever or swelling, it took several different types of solutions to get rid of it.

First we tried the solution mixed up by the vet. That did not work. So I continued to braise(scrape off the scabs) and wash with Betadine shampoo allowing the Betadine to stay on the scratches for 20 minutes and then rinsing off. I did this twice a day.

Once the skin and hair were completely dry I applied neosporin one day and triple antibiotic cream the next alternating both for a week.

This worked very well but the scratches seemed to grow back after a few days of not braising.

Then I found Krudbuster(made by Magic Cowboy?). After just 3 applications(3 days) the scratches were gone from both hind coronet/pastern areas. Even with the rain and bad weather the scratches have not reappeared.

I have seen other horses with scratches on our ranch who have owners who either do not care or are just ignorant to treatment who are in pretty bad shape. If scratches are not attended to asap the horses suffer immensely.

I am glad to hear your horse is better and ready to go back to work. I know how hard you work to care for your horses. Maybe you can add Krudbuster to your arsenal of medications.

Good Luck in whatever you decide to do.

WTG
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 14875
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello WTG,
Can you tell us what is in the Krudbuster?
DrO
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Alicia Kost
Member
Username: Aannk

Post Number: 587
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

WTG,
The cellulitis resolved in a few days following the treatment recommended by my vet and Dr. O.
The scratches still are not gone, but they no longer make her lame. There are stilla few scabs. I do basically what you do, but I only see her 4 times a week, so she doesn't get it done as often as you do it (wish I had the time!). I wash her with Maleseb before I ride, and brush off any sand and dry her off after I am done, and apply an anti biotic and an anti fungal. I also put MTG on the legs that are uneffected to protect them from getting it, and it is seeming to work. I will try the krudbuster, I have seen it before and I think I used it before, but I don't remember what the results were, however this is a different horse in a different barn, so I might as well try.
Thanks!
Alicia
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WTG
Member
Username: Angel77

Post Number: 173
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Sunday, Feb 26, 2006 - 4:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dear Dr.O,

Krudbuster is sold by Smart Pak and several other vendors. If you go to the smartpak.com website I am sure they list the ingredients as my bottle is at the barn.

If you still need info I will get it for you from the bottle.

I will say that treating my horses scratches was a 2x daily wash, braise, dry, apply, 7 days a week. I would braise and wash and dry and apply before I rode and then repeat 3 hours later.

Fortunately, my horse had only 3 small patches of scratches on each hind pastern. I caught it in time whereas a more severe case would most definitely take much longer maybe 2-3 months of wash, braise, dry & apply daily.

I tend to think many do not peel the scratches down to the root or whatever it is called. Then while scrubbing(to braise)the site of the scratches with Betadine or Aloedine or Novalsan long enough. I would scrub the scratches area on my horse while washing for at least 15-20 minutes.

Then I would rub the concentrated solutions on the areas and allow 20 minutes to set. Then I would rinse an repeat.

It seemed once the areas were immaculately clean and dry the scratches were able to heal. Any days I missed the gross growths were back and spreading with a vengeance.

Scratches is a silent yet aggressive problem. Some people miss it or dismiss it entirely as unimportant.

It blew my mind to see a 14 yr old girl(who is in training with a major trainer) put her new (within a year) very expensive horse away wet in an open pipe corral. I mean completely head to toe wet. The girl was happy that I brought this to her attention.

She then proceeded to show me her horses legs which were covered in scratches all the way above the pasterns. She said to me, "oh that's what those are?"

The horse is lame and she wondered why? Honestly! Why do people have horses if they are not going to take care of them? This horse must have had scratches for a very long time.

Scratches is the worst!


Best of luck to you Alicia. How is your new baby?
He looks great in your photos.

WTG
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Val Rich
Member
Username: Vrich

Post Number: 36
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Sunday, Feb 26, 2006 - 8:45 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

INGREDIENTS:
Water, Propylene Glycol, Polysorbate 20, Cetrimonium Chloride, Panthenol, Chamomilla Extract, Aloe, Lavandula Extract, Triclosan, Allantoin, Sodium PCA, Tetrasodium EDTA, Diazolidinyl Urea, DMDM Hydantoin, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Fragrance.
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Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann

Post Number: 177
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Sunday, Feb 26, 2006 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

WTG, you are right about people not taking scratches seriously enough. In fact I know of some long-term horse people who thought I was nuts and overcautious treating scratches on my horse. That is, until they personally have had a horse or horses go lame due to the malady and then discovered how hard it is to get rid of a case that has been left untreated that long. I've tried about every remedy known and this winter tried a product called Vetericyn, which is ionized saline solution. It is fairly expensive (about $20 for a 6 oz. (?) spray bottle). It is excellent for cleaning wounds. I treated early (immediate) cases of scratches by simply spraying and rubbing this stuff in a couple of times daily for a couple of days. It kills viral, fungal and bacterial but does not delay healing of the tissue. Some Vets have machines to produce ionized saline and then immediately use the stuff because it has a very short shelf life, but is supposedly good for cleaning surgical sites. The Vetericyn product is reportedly stable with a one-year shelf life. I see there is some for sale (discounted) on the internet with June, 2006, expirations, and hope the product is not being discontinued due to a lack of sales.
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Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann

Post Number: 178
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Sunday, Feb 26, 2006 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Should have re-checked before posting the prior because now I am not finding discounted or indications of discontinuation. There are reports of soldiers in Iraq using this product for sores and skin conditions, and it is being tested on humans with diabetic foot sores (as an alternative to Betadine/Povidone) that will not heal.
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