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Discussion on Kidney/bladder stones

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sandy rogers
New Member
Username: Sandyr

Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

i have a 13 yr. old mare that has had stones removed 2 times in the last 6 mo.s...i am desperately seeking advice on helping her get over this situation as i've been told it is a serious one..she is not on alfalfa and never had been...she is a really sweet mare and i am so discouraged..can anyone help with her diet and or other suggestions...sandy
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15201
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sandy, have the stones been tested as to what type (what are they composed of) they are?
DrO
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sandy rogers
New Member
Username: Sandyr

Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Friday, Apr 7, 2006 - 1:08 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

drO...i am sorry that i sent the info to you in the wrong way... i look 2x a day to hear from you and finally figured out what i have done wrong...the stones were 100% calcium carbonate .caco3. her ph was 8.0...we just had her on a round of antibiotics for 10 days for the bladder infection..thanks for all your help...sandy
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15281
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Friday, Apr 7, 2006 - 8:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I am sorry Sandy what did you do wrong?

What are her sources of calcium in the diet then? If you are uncertain give me a detailed description of her diet when she was forming the stones. Also you should consider urine acidification as described in the article on stones.
DrO
PS: Sandy proper punctuation and capitalization makes reading your posts easier.
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ilona armoni
Member
Username: Ilona

Post Number: 36
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Friday, Apr 7, 2006 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sandy, I give my horses apple cider vinegar added to their water, this was upon the recommendation of my vet as a preventive measure for kidney stones, not that there has ever been a problem. I have also read on this site (I can't remember the thread) that other vets have recommended the same and, in one instance, the stones dissolved. I am not suggesting that this is a cure-all method, simply something to consider.
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sandy rogers
Member
Username: Sandyr

Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Friday, Apr 7, 2006 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

What I did wrong was to send a reply to the emails I got from horseadvice..I wasn't giving her anything extra for calcium..she was on one cup of beet pulp, a small amount of cob, msm, daily dose of hoof builder and Corta-flex powder daily with only grass hay and in the summer pasture from the same fields that we hay..never any alfalfa except what small amount that was in the corta-flex powder and hoof supplement..she is a very easy keeper so i don't give her a lot of extra. Right now she is on dynamite supplements but my vet has asked me not to start her on the 2/1 calcuim/mineral supplement that they recommend due to the stone being calcium..the dynamite rep. recommends it feeling that the body is needing more calcium but is pulling it from the body and making the stones. Thanks again. Sandy p.s. she is now getting the vitamin c and vinegar in her supplements..
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15294
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Saturday, Apr 8, 2006 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ahhh there might have been part of your problem: beet pulp is a very rich source of calcium, almost as bad as alfalfa. It should be discontinued. The feed rep needs to go back to nutrition school, there is adequate calcium and phosphorous in the hay and grass. Discontinue this and any other supplement that has greater than 0.5% calcium.

Is there any clover in the fields?

In experiments vinegar has not been an efficient urine acidifier: the body uses the acetic acid as a energy source. Our article on urinary stones provides a useful urinary acidification scheme that you should institute.
DrO
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sandy rogers
Member
Username: Sandyr

Post Number: 7
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Saturday, Apr 8, 2006 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

We have sprayed for the clover and weeds so not much there. I have discontinued the beet pulp. Have you heard of a need to put a water filter on the tap, as we have well water, to get rid of any other minerals. Thanks Sandy
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15308
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Sunday, Apr 9, 2006 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

You have sprayed but have you checked?

Yes there are sections of the country that have to use water softeners that I believe work by removing Ca++ and Mg++ ions for Na+ ions. Contact your local water company for if this is a problem or if on well water have it tested.
DrO
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sandy rogers
Member
Username: Sandyr

Post Number: 8
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 - 1:08 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

DrO..just got discouraging news in that the most current urinalysis came back with a worse infection then before we did 10 days of iv pfizerpenn 4 times a day...what might your thoughts be now as i am hoping to get her into washington state university which is near here..thanks sandy
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15332
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

What were the actual urinalysis numbers?
DrO
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sandy rogers
Member
Username: Sandyr

Post Number: 9
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sorry for taking so long in getting back to you..I did take Dove down to WSU and came back with some promising results. Her ph was 8.3 and that was the only thing that was out of normal range. There was no more infection on their test as theirs was a sterile sample. They did an ultrasound on the kidneys and a scope on the bladder. Both looked perfect and very well with no new stone growths at all. I am so excited and pleased. We are trying the vitamin c with her grain to hopefully lower the ph. thanks Sandy
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