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Discussion on Weak hind end? Too calm?

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Lisa Suphan
Member
Username: Lovemytb

Post Number: 14
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Friday, Mar 31, 2006 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Dr O, thanks for your previous advice on the 2 yr old Tb who toed out.I had a farrier take care of him and now his feet look 100% better! My issue now is his hind end, my barn owner keeps saying there's something wrong with it, it's weak, etc. The vet only mentioned the toeing out and that he wouldn't let them really flex his hocks but she didn't have any concerns, no red flags, etc. Can you take a look? This is driving me crazy listening to her! She also says he's too quiet - he must be sick. He just turned 3 this month, he isn't lethargic just quiet and not much ruffles him. He plays but doesn't tear around as the mud is over their fetlocks. He can have an attitude while I'm lunging him, buck, try to pull away, etc. but not all of the time. Could he really be ill just because he's quiet? I just thought he had a sweet nature! He is unraced. Thanks, Lisa
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Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: Quatro

Post Number: 260
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, Mar 31, 2006 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Lisa, Just a comment on the too quiet, I had someone tell me that they thought Levi was blind when he was just a youngster, because they would wave things in front of him and he would not jump. He was just fine, just had been imprinted as a baby, and not much fazed him.
suz
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Lisa Suphan
Member
Username: Lovemytb

Post Number: 15
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Saturday, Apr 1, 2006 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You're the second or third person who has mentioned this to me. What exactly is imprinting with horses?
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Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: Quatro

Post Number: 261
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, Apr 1, 2006 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Lisa, The day that Levi was born, the lady who owned the mare, immediately handled him. She exposed him to textures, noises and touched him in the mouth ears, all over. He was handled daily by both of the owners. Although they exposed him to clippers at an early age, you can't get clippers near him now. He is pretty bold, and fearless in familiar surroundings! There are lots of techniques used by different human moms, it seems to make them more content to be handled by humans as they age.
suz
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15227
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Sunday, Apr 2, 2006 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Lisa, both that he is quiet and is weak are judgements and every one has one. What objective evidence do you have that he is sick and/or weak?
DrO
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Lisa Suphan
Member
Username: Lovemytb

Post Number: 16
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Sunday, Apr 2, 2006 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Honestly, other than her opinion, nothing on either issue. She's the only one to think he is "too calm" for his age though a couple of people on and off of this forum have mentioned imprinting as the reason. Others just think I'm very lucky! As for his hind end, again, just that she ranted about it and couldn't believe he "passed" the presale. I honestly didn't ask her why she thought this of him because I had already had enough of her opinions! I do have another TB, an exracer who is seven who does have arthritis from a former injury and a problem with his hips. I had him vet checked - he was basically a rescue and I would have bought him regardless- but the vet who did the presale said he was fine for flat work and never mentioned seeing any problem with his hips. Four months later he's lame, I have him xrayed again and according to the next vet it's the worst damage she's ever seen to a joint and what's with his hips? So basically I get very paranoid when people start pointing fingers at my horse because I already have one pasture pet that I adore and frankly, can't really afford (financially or emotionally)another one!
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Lisa Suphan
Member
Username: Lovemytb

Post Number: 17
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Sunday, Apr 2, 2006 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Suz,
Thanks for explaining that, I was not aware of imprinting with horses. I always thought that if I ever had a mare to breed that I would handle it's foal on a daily basis and desensitize it to everything I could - I guess I just never realized it was considered imprinting as well. Duncan doesn't like the clippers near his ears either, yet my 7 yold TB, who was raced and can be quite hyper loves the clippers.His favorite thing is to try to chew on the cord while I'm doing his bridle path or to lick the clippers while I do his muzzle!
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15236
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Monday, Apr 3, 2006 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I think it sounds like you have this figured out Lisa. If you want to pursue this see if there are any specific objective observations the lady has: conformation, the way the horse moves and perhaps we can address those.
DrO
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Fran C
Member
Username: Canter

Post Number: 445
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Monday, Apr 3, 2006 - 1:13 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Lisa, if the barn owner points out what she thinks of as conformational flaws and you are still in doubt as to her 'expertise', why not take a few pictures of your horse and post them here for a few 'second' opinions. Might help to put your mind at rest.
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Lisa Suphan
Member
Username: Lovemytb

Post Number: 18
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Monday, Apr 3, 2006 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I think I will. I know his confirmation isn't perfect but the vet never said anything (except the toeing out)was considered a possible weakness. I love him to death, regardless. He was just too sweet and willing to pass up because of a flaw or two. But if something really is a "weakness" that might eventually translate into lameness, better to know now. Thanks for the support!
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Lisa Suphan
Member
Username: Lovemytb

Post Number: 19
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Monday, Apr 3, 2006 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Okay, here are the pics of the left and right side of his haunches. I tried to get a full view of the rear but the camera batteries died! I can try again for it if anyone thinks it would help.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15258
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Lisa,
I am still interested in what the lady who says he looks weak behind sees that makes her have this judgement.

To evaluate the horse what we really need are conformation shots that show the whole horse standing square. Shoot both sides and one directly from the rear and include all the horse including the feet. Stand just far enough back that the horse fills the frame. Make sure the sun is behind you when you shoot.
DrO
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Lisa Suphan
Member
Username: Lovemytb

Post Number: 20
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sure, I can take other pictures. I haven't seen the barn owner in the last couple of days but she was definitely focused on his hind end. I'll try to do them this week.
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Lisa Suphan
Member
Username: Lovemytb

Post Number: 21
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Okay, he wasn't the most cooperative animal in trying to get this photo so we had to nix trying to get the full rear view.Duncan, 3 year old TB
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Lisa Suphan
Member
Username: Lovemytb

Post Number: 22
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dr O, Is this photo okay? I haven't heard from anyone since I posted it. Also, when do they typically grow out of the "rump higher" stage?
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Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: Quatro

Post Number: 278
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 - 9:32 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Lisa, He is about the same color as my Levi! Levi is 6 and I am still waiting for his front end to catch up to the back end. I am afraid that in his case He is going to stay that way. He is very close in the front end. He has a huge back end. Too bad I don't drive him, He could pull a train with his haunches! I was told Levi would balance out too, but I never did get a year? Sorry can't help you, but he is a nice looking boy:-)
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Lisa Suphan
Member
Username: Lovemytb

Post Number: 23
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks, Susan. He's a doll to work with - I just love him! Here's the rear view you ask for , Dr O.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15390
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Sunday, Apr 16, 2006 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Lisa,
I was waiting for all the information and I have still not heard why the barn owner thinks the hind end is weak. So I really cannot comment on this. Also I was hoping for the other side shot. Also the above shot is with the light in front of you so we cannot make out any detail of the thigh musculature.

But given all that I will be glad to comment on the above pictures. From what we have here the horse looks fine. Some might criticize the rear for being a little light but most of those would be folks who are not use to (or don't like) TB confirmation and the rapidly sloping croup. But the criticism does not have any significance if the horse is doing what you want it to do. Unless the lateral shot above was taken on a hill I don't think the croup is higher than the withers. He does have a right relaxed appearance in the lateral shot. Other than some filling out at the top there is not likely to be any more significant growth.
DrO
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Lee
Member
Username: Paul303

Post Number: 613
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Monday, Apr 17, 2006 - 1:55 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I, also see what I think COULD be called a "weak hind end", especially if you're trying to compare him to a "working western stock" horse. But, comparing him to other TB's, especially 2 yr. old TB's, it's hard from your pictures to see anything really troubling. He looks like a young TB. How tall is he and what do you intend to do with him?

I learned long ago, not to pass judgement on a horse due to any real or imagined conformation defects. I've owned and seen far too many performance horses who, according to experts, were not capable of doing what they excelled at. Many years ago, I realized how important it is to be careful of the statements you make......you may, one day, be dining on those words.
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Lisa Suphan
Member
Username: Lovemytb

Post Number: 26
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Monday, Apr 17, 2006 - 8:59 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

He's a hair under 16h and just turned 3. I'm thinking of doing low level eventing. I'll start him under saddle in the late summer.
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Lee
Member
Username: Paul303

Post Number: 615
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 - 2:27 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

How nice, Lisa. Once he begins working, that hind end should muscle up and your barn owner just might be eating her words. Best of luck with your pretty boy.
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