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Discussion on Blood Counts | |
Author | Message |
New Member: Jleclerc |
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 - 12:41 am: I am puzzled as to where I should post this question. I want to thank you first of all for the time you will spend on this question. I checked the forum and articles on anemia, low iron and gastric ulcers but was left wondering.History: I have a 3 1/2 old Holsteiner/TB purchased this summer in Victoria, BC. He spent the first 2 years of his life on pasture and then did some very gentle training at 2 3/4 years of age. He was fed hay and about 6 loaves of bread a day. At the age of 2 months he poked his eye and his breeder treated him with an eye DrOp cleaning his eye daily for about 6 months. He had never had other medication or anbiotics. After purchased, He was hauled to Alberta (a 24 hour ride) and then 3 weeks later I hauled him to the Yukon where I live (for another 30 hour drive). Monty is a 16.3 HH bony type horse. I met him very gentle and mellow which he gets from his bloodline. When he arrived in ALberta he looked like he lost a fair amount of weight (maybe 150 lbs)as he was quite bony over the spine and the hips were sticking out. When I purchased him this July he was then bony at the pelvis and hips but I concluded that he would grow big like in his lineage. Arriving in Alberta, he was running around for about 3 days having lost his home and his companions. I arrived 3 days after his arrival with another of our horse and he settled. Nevertheless he was tired which I assumed due to the travel and the heat. 3 weeks later We DrOve back to the Yukon (just beside Alaska) in 30 hours making frequent stop and stopping over night. He settled at our place comfortably within about 2 weeks. MOnty tends not to be a nervous horse and is very willing to be with people and share his corral (80 feet by 120feet) with one other horse. I had his teeth checked which showed to be very good and normal in the growth). He also has very good feet. I have been riding him 2 to 3 times a week no more and does flat work with him. I practice dressage. So I work him for about 15 to 20 minutes on the lunge line where he demonstrates no stress and work over his back and works on lowering his head. Then I ride him at the walk then a bit of trot for a maximum of 20 to 25 minuntes. In the fall I would go trail riding for an hour with him only at the walk. He tends to be relax on the trail and enjoy it very well following or leading his corral mate. Very often he would come back to the barn totally wet. He grew a big winter coat as well. I believed that because he was so willing and still growing in this big body that he needed more rest than exercices. MOnty tends to lie down during the day in the afternoon and at night, fall or winter. When I bought him in July he was grinding his teeth somewhat when we put the bit on. I figured this was due to just getting use to having a bit in his month. (He only had about 30 very short rides then)When I started riding him in August he was as well grinding his teeth at the beginnning when first putting the bit on and at the beginning of the ride. Over time that diminished considerably to often not do it but at times he still does when I put the bit in his mouth. In the last 2 months I have found him quite tired and even more the day after, where he appears more lethargic. When the winter came I rode him only twice a week and making sure that he always had a day of rest in between, except for 2 weeks ago where I rode him 2 days in a row. In the last 2 weeks of riding him he would right away lift his head high at the trot only and not the walk. I kept working through it thinking it was just a phase. He had been very willing and making progress on every ride that I was pleased with. In the past 2 weeks we have seen a mark decrease in his stamina and he would not have as much interested playing with his mate. Health: After I rode him for 2 consecutive days 1 1/2 week ago he was very tired the day after. The second day of rest in the evening, I came back from work to find him in his stall (the horses can access the stall freely from the corral)standing still looking stiff. It is very unusual to find him in the stall. He tended to have his legs slightly more under himself but was not pointing. He was wet at the chest and the shoulders (outside T= -15 celcius)I checked all his limbs, range of motion, hindlegs abduction, flexion, extension, front legs, lifting or lowering his back, pelvis palpating all the ribs and joint and he did not show any pain. (I am a physiotherapist by trade) He would let me pick up allhis feet to check except for the front right which he was extremely reluctant to lift. He looked a bit bloated and especially stiff on the right side. He does not have a pot belly. In few occasions I noticed a frosty spot on his hair on the right side in front of the loin at about 8 inches down on the side from the spine, wondering if this was the right kidney area. I suspected he may have his first episode of mild colic and decided to walk him. He was very reluctant to move groaning when he started moving and very stiff when turning especially turning to the right. Walking did not seem to make much difference but he felt a bit less stiff but still very sick. I would say 10 % of his health. I would put the halter on to bring him to his feed otherwise he was not very interested in it. He would eat but slow and would stop after sometime, he would drink plenty, defecate and pee normally. During that first evening his temperature was 38.1 celcius. He no longer sweated after that. He did not want to have anything to do with the other horse so we would separate them during part of the day to have him eat more. The next day I called our local vet for examination. Lameness was ruled out, flexion test negative. T= 38.1 C, HR:50 noise of the intestine motility according to vet was normal to slightly noisy, althouhg I found that he was farting more and the intestine were noisier than usually. Airways sounded very good. No reproduction of pain on palpation of the groin areas or others. NO internal exam was done. I asked to have blood, urine and fecal test done and the results were sent to my vet in Alberta who specializes in horse and particularly performance horses. The third night I saw that he was particularly frosty (more than the other horse) and his T= 38.8 C The test analysis showed mild anemia with low iron as follow: Calculated osmolarity: 275.9 Anion gap: 11 Creatine Phosphokinase: 117 Fibronigen: 2.0 Serum iron: 9 L The urinalysis reports: color: brown, opaque, very viscous, very cold, odor absent WBC: neg Nitrite neg Uro: Normal Protein 100 pH 8.5 BLood neg S.g. 1, 015 Ketone neg Bilirubin neg Glucose neg Microscopic exam: squamous, bacteria none calcium carbonate normal Fecal exam neg My vet was not sure why he was low in iron and anemic and figured that he may have stomach ulcers. She is sending me gastroguard for 15 days, ranitidine for 2 weeks. Also Hippiron IV fro 3 weeks and Visorbine for iron supplement. Nevertheless we are not sure if that is what he has since he does not appear stress although that I would say he very much like to have human affection and can worry in few occasions. With all the description of these symptoms I wonder if you can help us. Is there a problem or contraindication in treating for ulcers if he does not have any? And what else could it be? I most add: Feed: has not change since purchased: complete feed (amount for his weight) in evening, grass hay with at times max 15 % alfalfa leaves and beat pulp soaked in evening to put a bit of weight on him (which he has not really gain). We feed 3 times a day to 4 times. Water and minerals always available and quite fresh. We pick up manure at least once and often twice a day. I have dewormed him once with Quest but have maintain the corral free of manure. He has not been exposed to other horses beside our own. His coat is shiny and he has lots of in the winter. When I ride or work him on the lunge line he tends to foam considerably at the mouth on both side. In the corral he very few times paw at the ground. We have a wooden fence which he does not chew on. Urinating: I have noticed since I purchased him that he will sometimes stretch to pee and will not or will wait a bit before. His flow is constant but not always abundant. He does not drip. He does not seem to be in discomfort. I have not check his sheath for bean yet. I tried to give all the info I have hopefully not to painful to read. Thank you agian in advance. Josee |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 - 9:51 am: The topic you posted under was fine Josee you just should have started your own discussion rather than posting at the bottom of someone elses discussion.No, I see no contra-indication for treating ulcers and it might explain most of the symptoms. I am not sure I like the regimen prescribed, see the article on gastric ulcers for our suggestions. There is nothing in your post that makes a diagnosis possible. The elevated heart rate and fever the day the vet was out suggests to me a recent bout with a virus, but your symptoms of lethargy with a hint of recurrent bouts of mild colic have many possibilities. This is what you and your vet have to figure out, is exercise intolerance the main problem or is mild chronic colic the main problem and from there you can begin a diagnostic routine. One way you might differentiate the two is to see if the horse during one of his episodes is responsive to Banamine. Since your horse's weight/condition has not returned to normal from the weight loss you describe in the summer it suggests one of your problems is that you are not feeding him enough, review the article on Overview of Nutrition for suggestions. I do not know what to make of your lab work as I have no normals from you lab and you don't state what the blood count was. DrO |
Member: Jleclerc |
Posted on Saturday, Feb 8, 2003 - 4:19 pm: One more question I had was that he was fed by the breeder 6 to 8 loaves of breed a day. This is something I changed when I purchased him this last August. (The breeder had a breed distribution company). Would that change in his feed make a difference and what is the best way to do it if I don't want to start feding him bread? |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 9, 2003 - 8:25 am: Bread is not a particularly good feed for horses, particularly from a cost standpoint. I do not recommend you start it back and think it is unlikely to be responsible for your current problems. When removing bread from the diet it should be considered a concentrate and substituted pound for pound as such.DrO |
Member: Jleclerc |
Posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2003 - 12:59 am: Well, I guess it will be appropriate now to post my message in this section after last time in January. It has been approximately 6 months now since my horse showed signs of not doing well. I fed him much more, i.e. hay at all times. I also give him a bit of oats. He looks real good. He has gained weight to be normal now, his coat his shiny. He shows no sign of stress, chewing on wood, pain nowhere, does not grind his teeth more than normal. Overall he looks quite good except for the fact that he has warts that don't go away and 2 sarcoids as well which are not go away. I had some blood test done this week for check up. I have been now riding him 4 days a week. The blood came back again mild anemic. His RBC, WBC is low. His fibronegen is also low concluding no infection. Platelets and fibronegen are the only thing that are normal (lower range of normal). Now this time I don't need to hear about food because he has plenty. What he does not have his gaz in the tank. He is gradually more and more lethargic. He has no real desire to canter and he still lies down a lot. He shows no sign of colic. Never pace, never look at his flake, never kick with the hind legs. Never this, never that. He lately started to shuffle like a low energy kid who drags his feet. He has done fairly well in his training although never with much energy but now with no energy from behind he is not happy and not wanting to take the bit. He is just a very easy going horse that gives me all he has and is still anemic. I need to know which direction I should give my vet for further testing. I will be driving him down to Alberta in August and bring him to the vet there but in the mean time I need to know what further testing I need to have done. Liver? Kidney? Thyroid? Although it showed normal this winter.Feces normal, urine normal. Anything to suggest. Frustrated owner. Josee |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2003 - 8:55 am: Hello Josee,This lack of energy could be either normal for this horse (and he is just lazy) or a general symptom of something wrong. The fact that he looks healthy otherwise suggests the former however the results of a good physical exam should direct the next step. If nothing is found wrong I suggest you try higher energy feeds than the ones you list, and a gradually increasing conditioning program, under the supervision of your vet. DrO |
Member: Jleclerc |
Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2003 - 11:32 pm: Everything is fine with his feed. You mention general symptom of something wrong and by now other things are more obvious. It is not by laziness although one could easily conclude that. His symptoms have gone worse and now we are definetely looking at a neurological conditions. The vet has been coming on a weekly basis. SHe is coming tomorrow for more neuro testing to differentiate between EPM or Wobbler synDrOme. This horse use to trot over cavelletti bending his hindlegs like a pro and far from laziness.I have been looking for info about the different testing to do to differentiate between EPM and Wobbler but had no success yet. Hopefully my vedt in the Yukon will know better. Thank you |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 15, 2003 - 6:01 pm: Hello Josee,You will find the historical findings, physical findings, and the diagnostic criteria for both of those diseases in Diseases >> Neurological. DrO |
Member: Jleclerc |
Posted on Friday, Aug 1, 2003 - 1:51 am: I certainly read all the valuable information about neurological conditions and it was extremely useful for me as I could direct my vetint he right direction. As owner we can get real tuned in aobut our horses. He had indeed Wobbler. Within one month he went down drastically and 2 days ago he was enthanized at home.The articles on the site are really informative as well as people chats. I realize that as a online vet you can not diagnose without seeing the animal so it is even more important to not give opinion I guess on what it might be. All along I knew something was just not right and that is was not because of lack of food or laziness. Maybe people in general don't have the knowledge but I have worked in the health system for 15 years and being told that my horse was not fed enough or that he might just be lazy was tough to swallow. I realize that we place you in an awkward situation when we are asking for advice because often we are at lost. Anyway most likely all the low blood counts, his lethargy , etc might not have made sense but that Wobbler is definetely what he had. Thank you |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Saturday, Aug 2, 2003 - 7:15 am: Thanks for the update Josee and my condolences on the way it turned out. Frequently it is just my job to point out that there is not enough information available, at least in the post, to make a diagnosis and hopefully be able to direct members to what information is needed.DrO |
Member: Hankkk |
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 6, 2004 - 4:03 pm: My 2 year old filly seems very lacluster and slugish I had her blood checked Here are the resultsSodium - 142 wbc- 9.0 potassium - 4.6 RBC - 8.40 NA:K Ratio - 31 HGB -127 Chloride - 106 HCT - .354 H Calcium - 3.49 MCV - 42.1 phosph - 1.41 MCH - 15.1 magnesium - .86 MCHC - 359 urea - 5.9 RDW - 21.4 creat - 126 PLTS - 183 Glucose - 5.2 PCT - 1.67 Conj.Bili - 29 MPV - 9.1 fl Alk.Phos - 162 PDW - 22.3 % CK - 167 PLATELETS CORR .wBC - 9.0 x 10e9/L so doctor if you would have any advice I love to hear it thanks wade AST{GOT} - 334 |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Thursday, Apr 8, 2004 - 12:23 pm: Wade could I have the units and this labs normals?DrO |
Member: Hankkk |
Posted on Saturday, Apr 10, 2004 - 11:14 pm: Yes you can here are all the blood count paper i havethank you |
Member: Hankkk |
Posted on Saturday, Apr 10, 2004 - 11:24 pm: here the other sheet |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, Apr 12, 2004 - 9:03 am: Hello Wade,Unfortunately the reason for your filly's problem is not found in this lab sample. I suggest a thorough exam and consideration of the history to see if a list of rule outs of possibilities. I don't consider 1% bands to be significant nor is the slight elevation in calcium. DrO |