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Discussion on Young standardbred unbalanced at the trot

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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 37
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Sunday, Jul 9, 2006 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

After having a hip replacement I am looking for a pretty bombproof horse to ride. I saw a 5-year-old standardbred gelding today. He had never raced or been trained at the racetrack. Very laid-back, sweet horse. He had not been ridden in a month and I watched his owner ride him. He has a very calm disposition and would probably be considered a bit on the lazy side. He is green and has not had a lot of training. The owner has ridden him bareback on trails. Someone did ride him more frequently at one point and took him in a couple of shows and he did well - but he hasn't done much for quite a while. He understands the basics and the owner said he can go on the bit when he has been ridden a lot - but he was not on the bit today. When she trotted on him, he looked off - I can't say he looked really lame but very unbalanced. I am wondering if this is a characteristic of untrained standardbreds. Why I ask is because a couple of years ago I rode a 6-year-old standardbred who hated ring work and was ridden almost exclusively on the road and trails. I rode him in the ring - and he felt terribly unbalanced. Once I got him moving forward more energetically, got him off his forehand and got him head down, he improved.

Also, there is a 3-year-old standardbred mare boarded where I board my thoroughbred. The owner was riding her a week ago at the trot. She asked me if she looked "off". She did look unbalanced.

So I am wondering if this young horse I saw today, who has a very sweet calm disposition, is simply unbalanced - and is it something common to young standardbreds? This horse has a big trot and looks very loose and I suspect might move quite beautifully with some training. But I was wondering if there is something about young standardbreds that makes them quite unbalanced when untrained at the trot (perhaps because it is more natural for them to pace? - this horse can pace but seldom paces - only if he gets tense and only for a couple of strides).

Any thoughts?
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Beverly
Member
Username: Jockyrdg

Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, Jul 10, 2006 - 6:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I was interested to see your question Chadola and will be more interested in the answers. I work with Icelandics, who have 5 gaits, and very often they will feel very unbalanced in the trot but be fine at the walk and tolt. (pace isn't taught until the other gaits secured) In talking with many Icelandic trainers they comment it is not unusual for the breed to look and feel uneven until strengthened. When they are out of balance, not every step is uneven, straight aways show improvement or elimination of the characteristic. Indeed, the horses I dealt with worked out of it with a lot of good training. If they are left idle for long periods they sometimes become uneven again but strengthen very quickly and even out. It has always been hard to get vets in this area to comment as most are unfamiliar with gaited movements and acknowledge their ignorance.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 16100
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Monday, Jul 10, 2006 - 8:53 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Even if young Stb's are unbalanced we cannot know if that is what you saw Janice but I am concerned. I would have the horse looked at by a veterinarian or at least someone you trust to have a good eye for lameness. You could have that heart listened to also.
DrO
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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 41
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 1:03 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dr. O - I would always have a pre-purchase exam done by my vet. In this case the owner would let me do a half or a quarter lease of him as all she cares about is that he gets a good permanent home so I would be able to ride him also to see how he was and have my trainer ride him. The owner had a pre-purchase exam done before she bought him when he was 2 - by a vet I have used before and like. He just commented on the systolic murmur that went away with exercise and I expect, his parrot mouth - because he does have a parrot mouth (so does my 24-year-old thoroughbred gelding). What impressed me were his manners on the ground and that the owner hadn't ridden him in a month and got on him without lunging him - and he was so good. I believe he has good breeding but the trainers at the track felt he was not racehorse material. I can understand that as he seems so laid-back. His canter is a lope. He doesn't look around as he is being ridden - just listens to his rider. Although he looks nicely filled out he is very out of shape as he has had no exercise. He just looks like he isn't pulled together as he's being trotted - looks fine at the canter. The owner said though when he is ridden a lot, he gets off his forehand and looks completely different. But I wouldn't purchase him without out a pre-purchase exam by my vet.
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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 42
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 1:28 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Beverly - where I board my 24-year-old thoroughbred gelding they have 2 Icelandics. I think only one does the tolt. I should ask them what their trot looks like when they are out of shape. They are both used as lesson horses and also for driving so whenever I've seen them trot, they look fine.

With the 5-year-old standardbred I am interested in, I am wondering if it is a standardbred (and an Icelandic) thing because they do have that extra gait, which might be more natural than the trot. This horse only does a couple of strides of pace occasionally when he is stressed - otherwise he never paces. It is hard to explain what he looked like. His legs at the trot just looked like they were going all over the place and not every stride looked off balance - there would be a couple in there that looked fine. Also, the few times the owner got him to start to go on the bit and get off his forehand, I could see him starting to move completely differently. He over-reaches and covers a lot of ground at the trot so could have a big beautiful trot once he gets his legs more organized.

When I think of the way he looked yesterday, he looked exactly like this other standardbred looked like who I rode in the ring when he was normally only ridden on the road or on trails. I remember saying to his owner that he felt so off. But after I started doing half-halts with him and put him together more, his movement became smoother and I could feel the "offness" disappearing. And he definitely was not an unsound horse.

And it was the same thing watching the 3-year-old standardbred mare being ridden a week ago where I board my guy - at the trot her legs were all over the place and her owner was asking me if she looked lame.

I would certainly have my vet check this guy out - I also would want to make sure that his heart murmur is nothing to worry about. It is interesting though, that the only standardbreds I've ever been around all were green and all had that uncoordinated trot.
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Beverly
Member
Username: Jockyrdg

Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 7:10 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Janice, I do think the Icelandics irregularity when immature is related to their "hard wire" for gaits. The feeling I always get is that the horse wants to change gaits because that is easier and more natural than balancing evenly for the trot. At the tolt and walk they are sound moving. My experience here and in Iceland is that a gaited horse can move multiple combination of feet so that exactly what they are doing can be mystifying. Someone said a gaited horse can be as easy to ride as you want or intensely challenging if you want to create a good gait. Was your STB bred to trot or pace? Interesting your comment about stress and pace, an Icelander will tell you a tolter is under stress if it starts getting pacey. That is not to say pace horses are stressed, pace horses are developed to maintain that gait at speeds and with ease. NJ is a big STB race state so I get to see a lot of retirees on the trails, and they make excellent trail companions Most will tell you a trained pacer will prefer to pace over anything else. If your boy came from pace blood lines you may be seeing his initial struggle to coordinate his movements. This is why we always train pace last. I am not trying to convince you that there may not be a lameness problem with your horse; just that care should be taken to dismiss soundness out of hand too quickly. Is there a time frame here, the idea you mentioned of leasing him could be a good one to help make a determination. Training experience would show lots of shoulder in and movements to soften the shoulders as well as walk trot transitions to help shift the weight to the hind end. Be sure your trainer feels comfortable with a gaited horse and recognizes the differences and how to work with them. Curious, do you know of Robin Hood in Vernon,BC?
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DJ
Member
Username: Djws

Post Number: 64
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Janice-

Do you know WHY this Standardbred was never raced?

Just to be on the safe side...have the horse checked for EPM when you have your vet-check.

I have seen MANY Standardbred horses not raced or taken off the track (quietly-if you get my meaning) because of being "unbalanced". Many young horses show earlier symptoms of EPM at the track because they are "stressed". Most are then removed from harness racing or never raced. The more speed asked from these guys, the more unbalanced they become (if EPM).

Generally, it's a soundness problem when they "don't think they are race horse material".

Over reaching is another reason they often don't make the track circuit-too many injuries even with boots and shoe corrections.

I, like Beverly, am curious to know...is the breeding for this horse a Standardbred Trotter OR Pacer. Would make a difference. If you don't know, I could check for you if you can post his breeding.

Standardbred PACERS usually (keyword-USUALLY) pace naturally. My SB pleasure horse prefers to walk and pace. He raced for 10 years, out to pasture for 3, now he is being ridden. When running in the pastures, he paces rather than canters (beautifully).

I am not a skilled rider. I am 53, just returning to the "riding" part of the horse world. I have been around Standardbreds and the tracks for years though.

I also had problems when trotting...seemed rough/unbalanced because it was FAST! I finally have slowed him down and it's great. He won't/doesn't canter...walks,trots and PACES only. The trainers at the track want a controllable, bomb proof horse that walks and paces-nothing in-between. The slow pace is a wonderful gait (their jogging gait). I am going to have a trainer work with us this winter on the canter (the trainers here "school" a pacer not to canter when they are going to the tracks). When trainers and owners look to buy a SB yearling-they look for the ones that pace naturally.

Also, I have found that a round pen is very unnerving to a SB (especially pacing). They are used to a track with long straight-a-ways. Perhaps it is hard for them to adjust to constantly turning????? Mine also performs better on the trails than in a round pen. It IS getting better though! I have much to learn myself so, it is difficult to tell which one of us is at fault-LOL!

SB are driven at the track with overchecks-keeps their heads UP. I have been told that it takes them awhile to balance their gaits with their heads down when taken from the track. It is an entirely new "balancing" act for them!

I also use a "Bitless Bridle". SB are used to having 2 bits in their mouths with their tongues tied. Most are "severe" bits. They "grab" the bits to race. My horse relaxed in MANY ways when I began using this equipment (www.bitlessbridle.com). His entire performance was better (i.e. balance, attitude, etc.).

My horse appears lazy, laid back, indifferent. SB are good natured horses (and pleasers) if they have not been abused or mishandled. When you put your foot down, they get to work and learn easily (faster than I have).

I believe that SB are stressed if they have raced. Most are not turned out during the race season (fear of injury), they are kept in their stalls, jogged, trained once a week, and raced. They are "off" only a few months a year. It's a demanding life. Because most of the money is in the 2 and 3 year old horses, they are started too young.

I hope your vet finds his health in good form.

I have found great joy with my Standardbred. He is a smart, personable, patient, and loving companion.

Good luck!
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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 43
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Wow - all these responses - it is great - this guy was never raced - I am at work and his current owner got him when he was 2 - at home on my computer I have his bloodlines going way back. I will post them when I get home.

He was bred by a lady and her husband (a dentist) in Maple Ridge, BC - the lady was murdered a few years ago in her home by a kid from the neighbourhood - it was very tragic. From what I read about her, she loved her horses and was very highly thought of. This boy is one of theirs - so, given her reputation, I doubt that he was sold because of any health issues. The current owner faxed me at work today the vet report (done by a vet I've used before) - done when he was 2 (he was a cryptorchid at the time - has had both testicles removed since) - there is no mention of any lameness issues - just one thing that worries me - it says "at rest systolic heart murmur - after exercise at increased heart rate murmur is not detectable". So that's my other worry about him I have to get more info on.

However, on the other issues you raised, I assume he was a pacer because he raced at Cloverdale, BC and as far as I know, they pace there - I don't think they have trotters there - I could be wrong. I know that this boy can pace but his current owner has had him for 3 years and he has gone in a couple of shows. He has been trotted and cantered. He has a nice easy canter - more like a lope. The girl who owns him is going to college and just hasn't had time to work with him a lot lately - but in the past when he has been worked with, he does go on the bit. I was seeing him when he was out of shape. He looked very loose - like his legs were going all over the place at the trot - except when she got him to start to go on the bit. Then he started to come together and looked more coordinated.

However, he may very well have looked rough and unbalanced because he was trotting too fast. He was covering a lot of ground.

I think he wasn't thought to be racing material because he was too slow. Since I know who bred him and have his report from his pre-purchase exam done when the current owner got him as a 2-year-old, I suspect there were no lameness issues.

This horse I think has always had good care.

When I looked at his breeding - not far back one of his "relatives' won over $800,000 at the track. So he seems to come from a good bloodline.

As far as a bit goes, he has a very soft mouth and is ridden in a loose-ring snaffle. When I saw him ridden the other day, it was in a large outdoor ring - not a round pen - I noticed him being unbalanced when he was going straight - but maybe he was just trotting too fast.

If I purchased him, I would have a pre-purchase exam done by my vet and have him tested for EPM.

He is very laid back and a gentleman. Now I have to figure out if the heart murmur is an issue to be concerned about.

Janice
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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 44
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Beverly - I know of Robin Hood and I think her sister comes down to the place I board my thoroughbred and gives clinics frequently - her name is Marion Weisskopff.

I'll post this horse's bloodlines and maybe someone can tell me if he is a pacer or a trotter - I suspect he is a pacer. And it could very well be that it will take training to make him comfortable at the trot. His owner says that when he is worked more, the unevenness disappears. So it could very well be that he needs training and consistency - so far I think he would be worked fairly regularly for a while then no one would do anything with him for a while so the consistency was not there.

I expect my trainer would work well with him. He has a nice manner working with horses and seems to know what a particular horse needs to learn to do various dressage movements.

I've got to get more info about this systolic murmur he has though (or had when he was 2). Hope it is nothing to worry about.

I liked him so much - I don't want to get too excited about him then find out the murmur is a problem.
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DJ
Member
Username: Djws

Post Number: 65
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Janice-

I had some info written for you. I just lost it due to a power surge.

It is late and I will redo it tomorrow...too late tonight!
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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 45
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 - 12:58 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Here is this horse's breeding:

This is his info with the standardbred registry:
LIKE ABIRDONAWING (XN2295,H) [ 2001 ]
DANCING PUDDLES - NO TIME OFF - NO NUKES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Registration
Registration No.: XN2295 Foaling Date: 05/03/2001 Color: Brown
Registration: Foaling Place: MAPLE RIDGE BC Sex: Horse
Last Cert Date: N/A Place Bred: BC Non-Standard: No
Reg. Country: CA Sire Location: BC Twin: No
Origin: CA Trans. Semen: No Death Date: N/A
Export Status:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Identification & Publications
Blood Typed: No Actual Tattoo: Last Volume: 90
DNA Tested: No Actual Freezebrand: N/A Prior Volume:
Parent Verified: N/A Wallace No.: N/A Original Volume: 90
Prior Name: N/A Sires & Dams Last Year:
Markings: STAR AND CONNECTED STRIP. LEFT HIND ANKLE WHITE, HIGHER IN FRONT.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pedigree
Sire of Sire: STORM DAMAGE [ 1977 , P , 3 , 1:53.2F , $659,296]

Sire: DANCING PUDDLES [ 1986 , P , 5 , 1:55.2F , $261,629]

Dam of Sire: DISCO BEAT [ 1978 ]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sire of Dam: NO NUKES [ 1979 , P , 3 , T 1:52.1M , $572,430]

Dam: NO TIME OFF [ 1993 , P , $0]

2nd Dam: TIFFY TIME [ 1971 , P , 3 , T 1:56.3M , $48,261]

Foundation Mare: MOLLY J.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additional Reports
5 GENERATION PEDIGREE
(Member: $1.75 - Non-Member: $2.75) PATERNAL LINE MATERNAL LINE



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Performance VIEW PERFORMANCE REPORT (Member: $0.75 - Non-Member: $1.00)
Gait Track Date Gait Issued Lifetime


Gait Record Starts 1st 2nd 3rd Earnings



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Breeding VIEW BREEDING REPORT (Member: $1.50 - Non-Member: $2.75)
First Yr.
Bred Last Yr.
Bred First Yr.
Foals Last Yr.
Foals Total Reg.
Foals Total
Starters Total
Earnings
N/A N/A N/A N/A 0 0 $ 0



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ownership
Current Owners Location Member No. Purchase Date
Colleen A Findlay MAPLE RIDGE ,BC Y00839 N/A
James Findlay MAPLE RIDGE ,BC W62437 N/A
Current Lessees Effective Date Expiration Date Member No.
N/A N/A
Prior Owners: Current Lien: Prior Lessees: Prior Lien:
No N/A No N/A

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Breeders
Breeder Name Location Member No.
James Findlay MAPLE RIDGE , BC W62437
Colleen A Findlay MAPLE RIDGE , BC Y00839
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Beverly
Member
Username: Jockyrdg

Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 - 8:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Janice, Looks like you're getting a lot of good information and education. Good you are checking out everything. Also nice the seller is working with you and sharing information. By the way, Robin's other sister is Linda Tellington-Jones.
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Terri
Member
Username: Terrilyn

Post Number: 388
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I also own a STB. Three, never raced or trained to do so. She paces naturally, canters (beautifully!) as well...she is adept at mixing these two gaits. Her trot is her normal "default" gait. I have seen her fall in the pasture 3 or 4 times because her legs get all tangled up when changing speeds!

When I adopted her, the SRF sent an article called "A Change of Pace" in the adoption package. It has some useful info that I think you could use. I'd be happy to email it to you since the file is too big to post here (pdf with graphics) if you send me your email address.
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Terri
Member
Username: Terrilyn

Post Number: 389
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Never mind...your email is in your profile. It has been sent. Best of luck in your decision process. He is definitely a pacer, BTW. Look at the info under the pedigree heading. The "P" there stands for pacer.

I am not so sure about the main reason for not racing being due to lameness. It is probably equally due to speed. Same thing in the TB world...not all are cut out to be racehorses. STBs must be able to do a mile in under 2 minutes.

Best of luck to you as you make your decision. I have found STBs to be wonderful, giving horses.
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DJ
Member
Username: Djws

Post Number: 71
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Janice-

You won't believe this! The sire of the two year old (that I groom for at the track) is No Nukes. I will attempt to attach a picture.

More later.
Small world!
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DJ
Member
Username: Djws

Post Number: 72
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Terri-

Could you e-mail me the article that you sent to Janice? I would be most interested in reading it.

tsilogistics@erinet.com

Thanks so much!
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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 47
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

DJ - here are some photos of "Winger". See any resemblance? It's a small world isn't it?


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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 48
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Terri - thanks for the article. You can see the photos I've posted of him. I suspect his apparent lack of coordination at the trot is because he hasn't been worked regularly for quite a while and being a young standardbred may require some consistent training and riding to help him become more balanced at the trot (especially since he was a pacer - as I now know). I realize you are correct Terri about a lot of thoroughbreds not being cut out for racing - not because of lameness - just because they are not fast enough. And some horses just don't want to race. It makes sense the same thing would apply to standardbreds. Winger is clearly not the type of horse who wants to take off with his rider - he seems too laid-back for that. Watching the owner ride Winger after not having been ridden for a month, he sure did not look like a racer to me. Some horses just want to take off with the rider when they have not been ridden regularly. Winger's owner did say he is a bit on the lazy side. Right now I think the only real issue is the systolic heart murmur he has which was not detectable when he was exercised when he was a 2 year old. I am thinking of having my vet go out and check him out - she and I have been leaving voicemails for each other. I really like Winger. If the heart murmur is nothing to worry about and there are no lameness issues, I suspect I will be doing a 1/4 or 1/2 lease of him for now. In a couple of weeks I will be allowed to ride again after my hip replacement. My 24-year-old thoroughbred has sore heels which we are working on with the farrier and vet. He does do the occasional buck and is very strong. He is laid back compared to a lot of thoroughbreds but really pulls on the bit and can pull me out of the saddle. With my new hip (and a risk of fracture of the neck of my femur if I were to fall), I need a laid-back gentle horse with a soft mouth easy to control. Winger seems like that. He's also smaller than my thorouughbred.
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Terri
Member
Username: Terrilyn

Post Number: 390
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

You are very welcome, Janice. Hope you can find something to use. We backed our STB filly for the first time last night...she did very well. Although...talk about unbalanced....my daughter is pretty light, and she acted like she was carrying around a 1,000 lb. concrete block. Very unsure of her feet. After about 15 minutes with Lauryn in the saddle, she gained a bit more confidence. She's such a beautiful little horse! She's going to make someone a really nice show prospect. I unfortunately have to return her to the Standardbred Retirement Foundation as she is just not large enough for my nearly 6-ft. frame. She will be perfect for a smaller rider...and I will miss her so much!!!
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DJ
Member
Username: Djws

Post Number: 88
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Friday, Jul 21, 2006 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Janice-

Sorry that I did not get back to you in a timely manner.

Sadly, No Tax Intended (Beau) was euthanized on July 14th. I placed a message under:

Inspirational, Art @ Entertainment
Inspirational
Putting A Horse Down

Instead of trying to explain everything here, perhaps you can read that post.

Yes, I do see a resemblance. Winger looks a lot like No Nukes, and my Beau.

Please keep me posted on Winger. I wish you the best with him. Seriously, I'd especially like to know how you fare with him...he does remind me of Beau.
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DJ
Member
Username: Djws

Post Number: 89
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Friday, Jul 21, 2006 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

No Tax Intended (Beau), and Roy Biv G (BIV)...Standardbreds

the last time Beau was home from the trainer's.
(Beau has the four white feet!)

Beau, and those beautiful eyes! He also has the longer mane, and forelock (though it's mussed) like Winger! A bit of white on his face!

My BOYS!Beau
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DJ
Member
Username: Djws

Post Number: 90
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Friday, Jul 21, 2006 - 12:50 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Terri-

Thank you very much for sending the article. I honestly have not taken the time to read it yet, but I did receive it. When things settle down, I know it will be helpful, and informative.

Sorry for the late acknowledgement. I read your condolence message, and knew you'd understand.

DJ
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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 49
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 - 3:32 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

DJ - I am so sorry for your loss. Beau was a beautiful boy. I will read your other message (I know I will cry). We do fall in love with them, don't we?

I am going out to see Winger on Sunday. My vet already knows about him and knows I will want her to examine him if I feel safe on him when I get on him (don't know exactly when that will be - my orthopaedic surgeon said I could ride at least 3 months after my hip resurfacing which will be next week - but Winger's owner is going away for a month - maybe if I get brave I'll get on him the weekend before she leaves).
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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 51
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 - 3:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

DJ - now that I've stopped crying after reading your other post - no I haven't stopped crying - it was so touching.

A question about Beau - did he have a parrot mouth? Winger does and it is quite cute (my 24-year-old thoroughbred also has a parrot mouth).
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DJ
Member
Username: Djws

Post Number: 100
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Janice-

Thanks for your message. Yes, Beau was gorgeous. I will always love him, and he will forever hold a place in my heart. I miss him so very much.

Be careful when you begin riding again. I've seen a few hip surgeries performed...it is important that you are completely healed. Are you still in any pain? I hope you will start out in a "soft landing" area (just in case). Will you be able to post?

No, Beau did not have a parrot mouth. I have never seen one actually, just read about them. Do you have a picture of Winger's or your TB's?

It's a beautiful, cool (er) day here. I am going to get out of the house, and go ride. I haven't felt like doing much since Beau's passing.

Keep in touch, okay? I want to know how everything goes for you, and Winger.

DJ
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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 52
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 1:33 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

DJ - I had hip resurfacing - more stable than the hip replacements that have been done for years but the neck of my femur is more fragile - hence, why I need a bombproof horse.

I could be wrong but I suspect parrot mouths are quite common. I had looked at a thoroughbred around Christmas time who also had a bit of a parrot mouth. Often you can't tell unless you lift their lip and look at the teeth - don't have any photos like that. It's just an overbite.

Email me your email address - my email address is jchadola@telus.net. We also have age in common. I'll let you know how it goes with Winger.

Hope you enjoyed your ride
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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 54
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Monday, Aug 7, 2006 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

My vet came out to check out Winger on Friday. By that time he had been worked more and he is not unbalanced like he was before at the trot when he hadn't been ridden in a month. My vet liked him and thought he had a wonderful disposition and his heart murmur was a non-issue. She said his feet were like concrete they were so hard.

One interesting thing. When he trots, he brings his hind feet up very high and they almost stay suspended for a split second before he puts them down - this is even when he is going very slowly. My vet said she never saw anything like it. She also noticed that (I'm not sure exactly what they are called) his 2 tendons/ligaments on the outside of his hind legs were very far apart. She checked him out for any pain as it was the trot that made her wonder what the cause was making him bring his feet up so high. When she raised his hind legs, she practically had them above his tail - he was so flexible. She was doing somewhat of a flexion test - had the owner walk him briskly after holding his hind legs up. She said there was no indication of pain. She said there did not appear to be a problem but the high raising of his hind feet might signify a problem. However, the owner has had him since he was 2 (he is 5 now) and had no problems with him except he was once lame for a day (and I think she knew exactly what caused it). My vet certainly was not telling me to not lease him or end up purchasing him. She was impressed with him - especially his quiet disposition.

Any ideas on his high-stepping trot?

One thing I found out is that his sire, Dancing Puddles, is gaited - he has an additional gait called the "walking trot" which is supposed to be very smooth to ride. I believe when I was watching the owner ride Winger when she couldn't get him into a full trot, he walked with his front feet and did his high-stepping trot with his hind feet.

Could his high-stepping trot be because he also has this extra gait?
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Terri
Member
Username: Terrilyn

Post Number: 405
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 8, 2006 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Many Standardbreds can actually rack...is that what it looks like he's trying to do?
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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 55
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 9, 2006 - 1:54 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I don't know if it is a rack? What does it look like? What Winger does is walk with his front feet and do a very high trot with his back feet.
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DJ
Member
Username: Djws

Post Number: 191
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Monday, Sep 18, 2006 - 12:22 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Janice-

Looking at some books for upcoming Standardbred sales (Lexington and Harrisburg), and ran across the name of Storm Damage...thought of you, and Winger. How are you doing? Would love to hear from you.

DJ
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Janice C Chadola
Member
Username: Jchadola

Post Number: 57
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Monday, Sep 18, 2006 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi DJ - unfortunately, it didn't work out with Winger. I was very upset about it. What happened was that first he kept kicking the walls in the stall. I decided to move anyway from where I was boarding and gave one month's notice then they told me to get Winger out soon. I took him and my 24-year-old thoroughbred to the new place I am boarding. Winger took off with ears pinned back after my thoroughbred so my thoroughbred had to be removed from the field. Winger then was very aggressive with some of the other horses. He injured 2 horses - one had a very swollen leg. He kicks. He charges after them. He turns his butt to them and kicks them - obviously he kicks to make contact. He was put in a paddock by himself and he jumped out from a standstill. I felt very bad that he hurt the other horses. I also was concerned that if he could become aggressive with other horses, what if he became aggressive with me? With my hip replacement, I can't risk that. So I had to tell his owner that I needed to return him to her. It was good it was a lease. I told her thought, that I would pay for him to get his 2nd vaccination (he had had his first when he had his pre-purchase exam) and I would pay to get his teeth done - as I had planned on doing that - his owner is a student so does not have a lot of money. It was a sad ending. Perhaps someone will get him and love him and be able to teach him some manners with other horses. He was gelded only in April, 2006 - his experience being turned out with other horses was brief. That may explain his aggression with other horses. I am really sorry it turned out that way. He has a lot of potential so I hope he finds someone who can bring the best out of him.
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