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stenella
Member
Username: Stenella
Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 - 12:30 am: |   |
I've read all the info on gastric ulcers and I don't see mention of the product GUT, by Uckele. My vet recommended using it, following the 28 day treatment of gastrogard.
I also am a bit confused as to what the correct protocol is for post ulcer lifetime maintenance. Am I supposed to have my horse on a small amount of gastrogard, daily, for the rest of his life? I was not told much of anything by my vet, other than treating my horse when away or in known, stress inducing situations (ie. clinics, saddle fittings, lessons).
All management suggestions are already in place, 24/7 turn out, access to hay or grass 24/7, and a quiet low stress environment. |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1270
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 - 10:41 am: | |
Hi Stenella,
My two cents on this:
If you know what sets the ulcers off (bad weather, clinics, etc.) do give the ulcerguard before. BTW, ulcerguard is less expensive and is measured in quarter doses for maintenance only, but has the same ingredients as the GG.
Since you have great management, I would think you would not need to give GG or UG on a daily basis, unless you see signs. I unfortunately do NOT have great management, my boy is on a diet and I have no grass to speak of. You're lucky  |
Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert
Post Number: 385
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 - 11:08 am: | |
Hey Aileen and Stenella
Where do you find Ulcergard that is less expensive? I get Gastrogard for $28. a tube, and all the ads I see for Ulcergard have it at around $37. a tube... the only benefit I see is that you do not need a prescription! Maybe I am looking in all the wrong places, but I think they both are the same amount of Omeprazole in each tube.
My guy, if this helps at all, has chronic gastric ulcers, and I just keep Omeprazole handy for stressful situations, which he keeps me guessing as to what he might react to as painful... as noted before, rain, change of hay, hotter than usual weather, cooler than usual weather, etc.
It is a constant battle, but I no longer just give him the maintenance dose. I can anticipate most of what would set him off and go ahead with the Omeprazole. Now that I said that, I'm sure he will come up with something new to challenge my confidence! Management is key! I know you already know this. I just wanted to let you know that it really is. My guy has had problems since 2002! Good luck with your guy!
Nancy |
Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert
Post Number: 386
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 - 11:12 am: | |
Oops, Stenella, I just re read your post, and I noticed that you treated for 28 days. I think, now, that a two month initial course is recommended! I know, REALLY EXPENSIVE!
Nancy |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1272
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 - 11:31 am: | |
Yes, what Nancy said
Here in CA, gastroguard 7 day is almost $300. About $40. Ulcerguard is about $35, $28 some places...and yes you're right that they are the same just different dosages |
stenella
Member
Username: Stenella
Post Number: 7
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 - 11:50 am: | |
Thank you both. Where and when did the initial recommendations change?
As for me, through my vet, the price was $38 a dose. The initial 28 day treatment cost me $1080. Through a friend (also a vet) I was able to get it at $27 a dose, which I have as a backup. My horse came with ulcers, I believe, and has had them for years. Because he didn't have the "classic" signs, it was not realized, though in hindsight, I believe it was obvious. Unfortunately even vets need to be better educated as to what to look for, re. ulcers.
I treated my horse, prophylactically, on a hunch, and the difference in 36 hours was startling. |
Susan Jeys
Member
Username: Sjeys
Post Number: 52
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 - 12:07 pm: | |
$28...that is the holy grail. In Dallas/Fort Worth at the local top level diagnostic clinics Gastroguard is $50 per one tube dose. 3 of the four major clinics here had it listed at that. One had it listed at $30 per tube, so I snatched that up. I then started ordering it off Ebay (Ulcergard, but the same thing) and am paying like $31 per tube including shipping). I keep my ulcer prone horse on 1/4 tube every other day and it does the trick. If I skip a couple of days he starts to strech out his hind end like his tummy hurts him. My horse had tiny, tiny, pinpoint ulcers which are ridiculous that they cause him issues, but like you our management can't get a whole lot better (besides a bigger grass field than he already has!)
Where is your source at $28.00? I will order some more.
Oh, and yes on the treatment, I did 28 days and within four months they were back. If you read the article on horseadvice it says there is an extremely high occurence if you don't do it for the 28 days plus the 14 days. I regretted that, but at least he was okay for four months before I had to start shelling out the money again. |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1274
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 - 12:08 pm: | |
Hi Stenella, I too treated my horse on a hunch
Here's a quote from Dr. O's article:
"To help prevent recurrence of gastric ulcers, continue treatment for at least an additional 4 weeks by administering Gastrogard at the daily maintenance dose of 0.45 mg/lb (1 mg/kg). Reoccurrence rate was high in horses that did not get treated for a total of 8 weeks." |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1275
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 - 12:12 pm: | |
Sorry Susan, not any more...$32 now...
http://www.medi-vet.com/detail.aspx~ID~2701 |
Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert
Post Number: 387
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 - 12:58 pm: | |
Hey Susan
I have gotten it from SmartpakEquine.com ... wow, I just rechecked the site and it is right at$34. a tube! I must have transposed the days(28) into the price... however, my vet does get it for me for less. I'm so sorry for the misquote!
Nancy |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16155
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 14, 2006 - 7:15 am: | |
Stenella it appears most your questions got answered except the one about "Gut". What is in the product and what are the dosage recommendations?
DrO |
stenella
Member
Username: Stenella
Post Number: 8
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 - 2:20 pm: | |
Thanks all of you. I've started my horse back on the Gastrogard and ordered 2 months worth, to be sure I get it this time.
Re. GUT, it's made by http://www.uckele.com/, seen here http://www.uckele.com/shopping/picserve.cgi?picserve=/gut10_l.jpg
and the ingredients are:
Ingredient Amount
Guaranteed Analysis:
Per 15 g dose:
Hydrolyzed Gelatin
4,000 mg
Lactobacillus Acidophilus
1.5 billion CFU
Lactobacillus Lactis
1.5 billion CFU
Ingredients:
Hydrolyzed Gelatin, Mannan Oligosaccharides,
Malto-Dextrin, Magnesium Silicate, Sodium Copper Chlorophyllin, Deglycyrrhized Licorice, Aspergillus Oryzae, Bacillus Subtilis, and Special Rice Bran Extractives |
stenella
Member
Username: Stenella
Post Number: 17
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, Aug 5, 2006 - 8:34 pm: | |
As I'm almost through the first 28 days of Gastrogard, I"m wondering if there would be any benefit of doing a full dose, as opposed to a half dose daily, for the second 28 days (to better ensure no more reoccurance). |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16337
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 6, 2006 - 7:57 pm: | |
There is no work to say that you are better with full vs the lowered doses discussed in the article Stenella. There might be a benefit for some horses but currently it is unknown. I thing the single most important step is to manage for a low ulcer causing environment.
DrO |
stenella
Member
Username: Stenella
Post Number: 18
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 7, 2006 - 12:28 am: | |
Thanks, Dr. O. As for the environment, it's about as laid back as I can get it , other than buying him his own ipod and a lounge chair.
The only other thing I can think of is to take alfalfa with me on long rides, for a snack.
I appreciate the input. |
