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Discussion on Bicipital bursitis

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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 924
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dr. O can you direct me to Bicipital Bursitis and what it is ? I have a 5 year old mare that has been put on the back burner now for two years.. I had her backed as a 3 year old, she came home 1/5 lame.. I had her looked over, vet at the time said turn her out for pasture rest, basically could not find anything felt she needed time.. As a 4 year old i brought her out of pasture started riding her and bred her.. she again was 1/5 lame on the same front left leg.. I turned her out to pasture to become a mom.. Now at 5 I am thinking of weaning the colt and starting her back under saddle.. again I notice 1/5 lameness in the left front..Its time to address it, I have one of the best leg men out here to do an eval on her.. in a nut shell he blocked her from the knee down.. no change... We both feel its in the shoulder and he recommends ultrasound.. * which i will do after weaning*.. he did say it could be bicipaital bursitis? So what is this? He said with a shoulder injection some outcomes are very good.. ? Could you tell me more please..

**long story longer , not a good day here.. my mid level dressage horse he suspects suspensory problems as well ** :-(

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 16592
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 7:06 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sorry to hear about your problems Ann, we have a discussion in the Archives on this problem, see Archived Discussions members_only » Equine Diseases » Lameness » The Diagnosis of Lameness in the Horse » Discussion on Shoulder bursitis.
DrO
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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 925
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 10:11 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dr. O I had read the discussion you mention.. Bicipital bursitis was mentioned but never discussed after an abscess was discovered.. My understanding is this is rare, and treated with multiple injections? What kind of injections? And is this something that has to be done thru out the horses career.. ?? and is this something that is past on thru prodigy?

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66

Post Number: 1413
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh Ann, I'm sorry to hear this, hang in there!
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 16599
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You read the wrong discussion Ann. Be sure to carefully follow the above directions to the discussion where anatomy, diagnosis, and treatment of bicipital bursitis are discussed. Notice this is in the Archived Section. Or you can find it by searching the discussions but be sure you are logged in as the Archived section does not show up to non-members.
DrO
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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 926
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Found it.. ! Thanks ..After I wean I will be trucking the mare to the ultrasound lady, Carol Gillis,,, she will no longer be on the back burner.. I am not sure what to hope for.. this condition of the shoulder I understand is rare.. but if we don't find anything where do we go from there.. guess i will cross that bridge when I come to it...

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Wanda Martinez
Member
Username: Sonoita

Post Number: 70
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Good Luck ! Ann
Happy Trails
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Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541

Post Number: 190
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 4:58 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Ann, I've got a good friend going through this with her 16 yo Canadian warmblood. 3 yrs ago he was diagnosed with the bicipital bursitis, had steroid injections, was put on monthly Legend and 3 months hand-walking and did well for two years. She was able to continue to do his dressage and eventing. A few months ago his problem returned and when he got no improvement after the same treatment was repeated, he was given a poor prognosis. He was severely lame, almost hopping most days. She sought a second opinion that included an ultrasound. She is a nurse practitioner with ultrasound training and was there to see the exam. She told me the defect in the bicipital tendon was clearly visible. The vet injected the area with hyaluronic acid and steroid, and continued the horse on handwalking. That was six weeks ago and he is currently sound at the walk and trot. They repeated the ultrasound and the defect was not visible. Apparently the vet was incredulous himself at the good news. He told her to get back on him and start limited walking to see how it goes.
Now I am the original medical skeptic, but I know my friend is not likely to have lost her objectivity. She wasn't really looking for the horse to improve. I had questions myself about the wisdom of injecting steroid into a damaged tendon - we don't do it in humans as the anti-inflamatory activity can weaken the tendon. I wasn't there to see the exam, but I relay the story to offer at least one positive outcome. I think getting the upper level consult early in the game is a good idea. Best of luck, Stacy
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 16600
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 7:03 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

One thing I hang my hat on with the various causes of lameness that localizes to the shoulder area is the anterior phase shortens significantly compared to the amount of head bob associated with the lameness. It would appear the anterior motion of the leg hurts more than it does to bear weight on it compared to other lamenesses.
DrO
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Angie
Member
Username: Ajudson1

Post Number: 739
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 7:44 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

DrO., & Ann,

Forgive me for butting in here, but having a horse with what appears to be shoulder lameness off and on for the last 2 years this caught my attention.

Looked up anterior....O.K., help me out here....the lameness is worse when the leg on the side with the shoulder problem is moving forward? Not necessarily head bobbing lame, but more like a little hesitation to extend the front leg?
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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 928
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Stacy, thanks for the story of your friend's horse. The more I know or hear, the more questions I might be able to ask.. I kind of feel bad that this mare has been put off for two years.. but as I said the degree of soreness was so minimal that most folks would not have noticed it.. I mostly had a 'feel' of it.. But now that I don't plan on breeding her again soon, She needs a job, she has three huge ground covering strides and will make a lovely dressage mount..

Angie, I hope Dr. O explains himself a little bit more as well.. What I have noticed with this mare is it is NOT a head bob but a shortening of the stride, very little I admit at this point.. It appears to me that she shortens on the 'reach' of the stride, not necessarily while the hoof is weight baring or under her>> Is this what you mean Dr. O? I hope I made some since.

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 16609
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

You have Ann, the anterior phase is the reaching phase.
DrO
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Angie
Member
Username: Ajudson1

Post Number: 741
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ann,

My horse was kicked in the shoulder, and the lameness started right after that and there is still something a little "off"...and sometimes outright lame. And definitely in the reaching phase.

Do you know what started your horses problem?

Did I see this under the link that DrO suggested above, that chondroitin don't help with this?

I ask because I did try a few joint supplements, and of course the bute and stall rest. None seemed to help, but now I have him on Antiflex Complete, (you can check out the ingredients on horsehealthusa.com) I bought it for an older mare, and decided to use it on him....ta da!! He's not 100% sound, but I noticed more extension, and he freely canters on the lunge line, instead of the pounding trot he usually does.
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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 929
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Angie, I read the same thing, that the glucoasamine is not effected for the reasons they gave.. My mare I have no idea how this occurred.. I pasture raise my babies, she is one of them.. I bring them in at 3 to be backed and usually throw them back out to pasture till 4.. I brought her home from the trainer and noticed the shortness in her stride. Had a local vet check her out, he could not find anything and said let her rest.. I did, as I stated above, let a winter go by and brought her back in.. The shorter stride is still there.. She is not sore to touch, no heat / swelling she is symmetrical.. Just a slight shorter stride.. With her huge ground covering strides its not east to see... She has never been on any supplements..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 16615
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Friday, Sep 15, 2006 - 6:11 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Angie's lameness may involve the shoulder joint and not just the bursa, so there may be different treatment indications for the two diagnosis.
DrO
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Angie
Member
Username: Ajudson1

Post Number: 742
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Friday, Sep 15, 2006 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Doc, Always researching the issue, read, read and read.

Ann, sounds like my guy...no heat, no swelling, never was any that we could find.

He was sore for months it seemed after the kick, left him over winter also. He was fine, put the saddle on him for the first time as a 3 year old, he went off bucking and came up lame again. Now he's 4...and I am keeping my fingers crossed that it is on the mend. I've been hoping that once he quit growing that it would take care of itself.

Don't have vet around here with anything but x ray machines, and the one's that did see him just said he was lame, and would get over it with time....how helpful huh? (and that will be $$$$ please)

I have noticed my gelding has a ticklish spot on that side when cinching him up...don't know if it's connected or not. Like right behind his elbow.....I have to really take my time in that area.

My farrier did find a sore spot on his neck as he was going over his spine when he checked him out for me.

I would suggest trying a bucket of Aniflex Complete.
You'd be out about $50, but if it's going to help, you should see results after the 2 week loading dose. I have my older mare on a regular dose, but the gelding gets a heaping dose because he is 1500 pounds. So he's probably being maintained on 1.5 dose.

I'll post the ingredients here in case anyone is interested:

5000 mg of Glucosamine HCI
2075 mg of Chondroitin sulfate
1765 mg of MSM
1000 mg of creatine
50 mg of hyaluronic Acid
800 mg of Yucca
3475 mg of bioflavonoids
3525 mg of Vitamin C
8751 mg of IU of Vitamin E
plus protien, vitamin b complex,
and minerals, and amino acids.

Per OZ.

If you want more detail, I can look at the label...this is from the catalog.

And he gets a scoop of loose minerals, and a 13 oz can of SafeChoice pellets to mix it with.

Wish I had taken a picture 2 years ago, and drew a big circle where the filly's hoof marks were!!

Good luck Ann, keep us posted if anything changes.
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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 930
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Friday, Sep 15, 2006 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Angie, just off the top of my head, make sure your saddle is back off his shoulders.. just a thought.. With my mare saddle/ riding canter both directions etc nothing seemed to upset her or make her worse.. actually as I said she would warm out of it I thought.. I would start her tracking with the 'strong' side on the inside of the circle then switch.. she would be short for a while and either I got used to it or she warmed out of it.. * now you have me thinking :-) * I'll look at your product and compare with the horsetech that I use on the others.. After I wean I guess she will start getting the supplements as well and of course the ultrasound..

** on a side note, got back from Carol Gillis with the mare for suspensory issues.. YUP TOAST both hind legs,SEVERE, one is chronic been there for a while *thought it was hock issues HOW DUMB AM I?*
I will sell her as a brood mare, Carol says she ''could'' if rehab goes well come back to low level dressage.. she has incredible bloodlines and produces lovely foals.. I have kept her first one for me !

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 16619
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Friday, Sep 15, 2006 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ann, there are forms of chronic bilateral hind limb suspensory desmitis that are thought to be hereditary. Unless it is clear this is not the case she would not be recommended for breeding.
DrO
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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 1016
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Finally was able to take my other mare in for her US on her shoulder and x rays on her jaw.. Prima's shoulder/ bursa.. yes there is some fluid... but nothing significant... so he injected as a test more or less.. If we see a change in her stride... that was it... if not... well square one.. !~ Stacy, he said I could start working her right away, that there is no rehab?

Her jaw he did see some bony changes but nothing significant ... might have to re x ray her down the road, will have the radiologist take a look too .. but.. '' go ahead and bit her up.. !!~~ ''

So maybe after an awful 6 months, starting with the difficult delievery of the colt to pan feeding him for 2 weeks, the dressage mare blowing out both hind suspensorys, the filly severing her DDFT, the colt trying to bleed out 48 hours after castration, the kick in the jaw,.. to finally finding out what might be wrong with my 5 year old mare.. Could things be looking UP..?

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Fran C
Member
Username: Canter

Post Number: 747
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I will keep my fingers crossed for you Ann that indeed, things are looking up!
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Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood

Post Number: 1586
Registered: 3-2001
Posted on Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Gosh, Ann . . . when you list in one post everything you and your horses have suffered this year . . . it's mind boggling.

From here on out, I hope you are free of expensive, mind-numbing horse troubles.
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Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541

Post Number: 207
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 - 9:30 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ann, my friend Diana's horse that I described back in September is back in full work. Happy healing thoughts to you - I had a year like the one you have shared and the best thing I got out of it was that I found Horseadvice because of it. Here's to things looking UP! Stacy
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 17117
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 7:10 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hmmm, Ann I disagree with your vet's assessment of the diagnosis by treatment technique. Just because a horse gets better following some treatment does not mean it was the therapy and location of the lameness, the body heals itself most of the time. Conversely if it does not get better it does not mean this is not the location as not all illness is responsive to treatment.

To more accurately localize the lameness he should have used some local anesthetic, then we have the answer instantly and with greater confidence, for more see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse.
DrO
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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 1017
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2006 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I agree Dr. O , and well so do they at the clinic.. the vet did say.. the fluid he saw was not conclusive of what might be causing her short stride.. He also asked IF the lameness eval vet had blocked her shoulder< he had not.. So while there, well might as well... Of course the mare has come down with a raging goopy nose so i can't work her to see if any difference.:-(

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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