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Sharon Thomas (Sefiroth)
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 29, 2001 - 5:51 am: |   |
My 25 yr old Morgan gelding seem to have developed an allergy? This horse was born and raised in the mountains of Pennsylvania. When I moved to Illinois last year he came with me. Last summer towards the end of the season his eyelids would swell up so that his eye looked more the size of a baseball and he'd sometimes have a clear discharge. It comes and it goes quite a bit and both eyes are not effected equally. Usually one is worse than the other but its not always the same eye that's worse. It seems worse in the evenings then is usually better by morning.
This year it started earlier and was much worse. At the worst so far, the inner mucus membranes of the eyelids nearly swelled out so far they blocked his vision and he had quite a bit of discharge, mostly clear although there was some yellowish gunk in there too. That was on Tuesday. Wednesday and Thursday there was little to no swelling.
Last summer I had the vet out and he was stumped. Since it came and went he didn't think it was an infection. Since it didn't affect the eyes equally he didn't think it was an air born allergy (Couldn't be a toxic weed since the other horses don't have a problem, or maybe its some weed that only this horse is sensitive to?). Since it wasn't an all year round problem he didn't seem to think it was a tear duct problem. The vet gave him an antibiotic shot directly in the top eyelid and had me put ointment in his eye for a week. It cleared up for a while. Anyone else have any ideas?
Since its worse this year I'm thinking of trying to get another vet for a second opinion. I think I would at the very least like to get his tear ducts flushed. Does that usually require sedation?
~Sharon |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 29, 2001 - 8:35 am: | |
Hello Sharon,
During the physical exam where there any abnormal findings of the heart or jugular pulse noted? Has any laboratory work been performed and what are the results both normal and abnormal.
DrO |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 29, 2001 - 11:07 pm: | |
Sharon, are the bugs bad? I live in Indiana, and the face flies are horrendous. I was just wondering if the flies were irritating his eyes. While you're doing the tests and stuff, you might try a fly mask. At the very least, those horrible face flies would make any problem he has just that much worse. My horses won't leave the barn without their masks.
I've got a Morgan too - 23 years old. Please keep us posted.
Suzy |
Sharon Thomas (Sefiroth)
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 29, 2001 - 11:24 pm: | |
Dr. O,
I don't recall my previous vet mentioning anything irregular. He just came out, looked at him, and said basically "Ain't never seen that before." That vet is more a cow vet, and recently I've been going a bit farther afield to get two other vet partners to come out to my place. I'm going to call them next week if I see him puffing up again. I'll ask to have blood work done and let you know what turns up.
Suzanne,
The bugs here aren't any worse than last year. Well those big nasty black biting flies seem worse, but they mainly attack the horse's rump. The only time I have ever seen this old gentleman buck is when one particularly big one bit him.  I've been weighing the pro's and cons of a fly mask. He seems to do better if one is left on. BUT (and this is a big one...) he's turned out 24x7 and I usually work late nights. There's no one here I could rely on to take the fly mask off at night every night. I'd hate to take the chance that he'd run through the fence because he couldn't see it. I'll usually put some SWAT cream right under his eyes and that seems to help a bit with the face flies.
~Sharon |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 30, 2001 - 1:07 am: | |
Sharon - Yeah, I agree about the masks. I don't leave mine on after dark either. I've heard that some people do, but I guess I'm just too paranoid. DJ is out 24/7 too, and I just can't see him out all night in a mask.
I sure hope you can find an equine vet to help you get to the bottom of all this.
Suzy |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 30, 2001 - 1:56 pm: | |
Till they come out consider the possiblity of dependent edema as a contributing factor. The history of being fine in the stall then worsening over the day while out on pasture, I associate with some horses that get regular swellings of the head.
While out on pasture the head is kept down all day and if there is anything to create a little fluid exudation (inflammation or loss of osmotic activity in the blood) or pressure back up (heart or vascular disease) can cause the swelling to become pronounced. Picture it like your grand parents swelling in the legs only here the head is the most sensitive dependent area to swelling when it is put down to graze.
DrO |
Sharon Thomas (Sefiroth)
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 1, 2001 - 5:50 pm: | |
Dr. O,
This horse is never stalled. He's been on pasture 24x7 with a run in shelter for the 5 years I've owned him. He's always had slightly weepy eyes (used to get worse in the winter) since I got him and only in the past year and a half since I moved him has he shown these signs of swelling. But would not also a horse's legs be the target for swelling? Cody's never had his legs stock up with this. If it were a heart/vascular problem, would that show any signs while exercised?
I just got back from vacation and went out to feed my pony and checked on Cody. He has some moderate swelling again so I'll be calling the vet in the morning.
Suzanne,
Thanks for the well wishes! I checked out your site. DJ is very beautful. Morgans will always be my true love!
~Sharon |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 2, 2001 - 12:26 am: | |
Hi, Sharon ~ DJ and I are glad you liked "his" web site Morgans ARE addicting, aren't they? I sure hope you find out what your guy's problem is. Sure sounds like some sort of allergy, with him possibly rubbing his eyes and making it worse. Keep us posted!
Suzy |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 2, 2001 - 7:55 am: | |
Concerning the dependent edema possibility, I have seen horses with early heart disease, and eventually developed heart failure, that first had problems with edema along the ventral midline and in the head while grazing before the legs became swollen.
Concerning signs during exercise, it would depend on the nature and severity of the problem. Many circulatory problems will improve with exercise.
To understand this dependent emema theory, you should realize this is happening due to a combination of factors. Some of which are almost certainly acting in any 25 year old horse.
Generalized swelling around the head is not a primary symptom of cardiovascular disease, unless there is bilateral jugular occlusion, but any local inflammatory episode is magnified by these changes. The proper way to explore these questions is with a good physical exam and lab work up. Finding a primary local reason will help tremendously if it is addressable with treatment.
And remeber that this leads you to one of your most effective treatment options when the edema is so severe that mucous membranes of the eyes protrude: Stalling with food, water, and hay kept up off the ground. Stalling is also important as the mm are very sensitive to sunburn, causing the problem to become self propagating. Let us know what the vet comes up with.
DrO |
Sharon Thomas (Sefiroth)
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 8, 2001 - 4:01 pm: | |
Update: Nothing turned up in his physical exam or blood work. The vet advised me to keep a fly mask on as much as possible since he felt the swelling was started by face flies then worsened by sunburning. So for he's worn his fly mask for the past 48 hours. Its hot, the sun is beating down, and the flies are pretty bad, but he has no swelling with the mask on. He hasn't had a problem wearing it at night and its made of a pretty fine mesh so I guess he'll do ok.
Thanks for all your help!
~Sharon |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 9, 2001 - 11:15 am: | |
So glad to hear the mask is working for him . Those masks are truly lifesavers. My two won't leave the barn without 'em!
Suzy |
Heidi Magnuson
Member
Username: Heidim
Post Number: 126
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 11:12 am: | |
I'm resurrecting this thread because my daughter's new horse (same 18-year-old gamer mentioned in other posts) is having quite a reaction in the pasture. We are having an unusually dry summer here in SE Minnesota, and the flies are nearly nonexistent. Yet, his eyelids this morning were all swollen and he had mild clear tearing. There is no clouding of the eyeball. He is rubbing his eyes on his front legs a lot. Like the first person who posted here, the swelling comes and goes and affects the eyes differently. A few weeks ago, I tried the vet's ointment for eye infections, and it made no difference. Today is the worst I've seen it. This horse has never been pastured until coming to our place. I might add that I am personally experiencing my worst case of noxious weed attack ever, however, and have every reason to suspect our pasture. Any chance his problem could be plant life as well? |
Heidi Magnuson
Member
Username: Heidim
Post Number: 128
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 1:13 pm: | |
I want to point out that this horse is the only one having problems. The four mules and 1/2 Arab yearling are doing fine. I plan to buy a fly mask this afternoon, just to see if it helps. |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 253
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 6:15 pm: | |
Heidi -- I just read that Lantana consumption can cause keratitis, which would make eyes drain and be swollen. Make sure you don't have your horses eating Lantana, because eye problems would soon be the least of your worries. Does your horse have any areas of hair loss on his face? One of mine gets an itchy face in the summer months that causes him to scrub his face and eyes. MTG application helped relieve his itchy fungus face, and thereby helped his eye problem as well. |
Heidi Magnuson
Member
Username: Heidim
Post Number: 129
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2006 - 8:20 am: | |
Thanks for the insight, VIcki. I had to look up Lantana on Wikipedia, and fortunately for us Minnesotans it grows only in tropical regions. Our bane here is wild parsnip, and we currently have none in the pasture.
I have yet to check FIrefly's eyes after putting on the flymask yesterday. I will report back when I see how he's doing. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 15943
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2006 - 9:54 am: | |
I believe I have seen lantana growing wild in NC and Va mountains but with lantana toxicity you should see considerably more than just weepy puffy eyes as it is a photosensitizing plant (toxin: lantadene). For more see the Poisonous Plant page and use the link to the Illinois poisonous page site. I do think irritation is possible Heidi and the mask sensible to try.
DrO |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 254
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2006 - 12:17 pm: | |
I've seen Lantana growing in various places around the world -- including Madagascar (and NOT a tropical area) Minnesota is less hospitable than many environments, but I don't take the word of weed books about where things grow at all because there have been so many blatant errors. Several species are very widespread throughout Florida while not listed as being here. And new species continue to arrive. With global warming you will probably see some new things up there too. You can be very glad not to have Lantana, however. |
Heidi Magnuson
Member
Username: Heidim
Post Number: 131
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2006 - 1:01 pm: | |
Firefly's worse eye is back to normal and the other is a little less swollen. I did put ointment on the worse eye last night before putting on the mask. If the other eye doesn't improve, I'll do the same to it. I don't think the original swelling is the result of infection, but he rubbed his eyes so much it's hard to tell what else may have been introduced. |
KATHLEEN WHEAT
Member
Username: Kathleen
Post Number: 203
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2006 - 2:46 pm: | |
I didn't realize that Lantana is toxic. It is planted extensively in our area because it one of the only plants that flower that deer won't eat. That should have given us a hint. Luckily the horses don't have access to it.
Kathleen |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 255
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2006 - 6:16 pm: | |
Most horses (mine included) do not care to eat Lantana, but there are some individuals that acquire a taste for it and seek it out. It can and does kill cattle, horses and other animals (including dogs). I have friends who have lost horses to Lantana and have observed horses eating it. I've also watched horses eating stinging nettle, (no, they were not starving -- just an act of opportunism) which seems very unlikely! |
Heidi Magnuson
Member
Username: Heidim
Post Number: 140
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 - 11:59 am: | |
We have no Lantana in our pasture. We do have nettles, though. What's weird is that I would expect the other mules and horse to be affected as well. Anyway, the flymask is providing enough protection to help Firefly. Our dilemma now is that we prefer to pasture our horses at night, and horses cannot see through flymasks then. Dr. O. or anyone else, can you recommend similar head gear that won't impede his vision? |
Heidi Magnuson
Member
Username: Heidim
Post Number: 141
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 1, 2006 - 1:31 pm: | |
I talked to my vet again, and it occurred to him that my horse would probably do well with a racing hood and accompanying goggles for nighttime grazing. He is a former race track vet. I found all this online for a reasonable price, and thought I'd pass it along in case anyone else has a similar need. |
Ella
New Member
Username: Ella
Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 11, 2006 - 2:12 pm: | |
Happened to find this thread and thought I would also add that I have found a hood from the track with tinted goggles. I have a mare with an eye injury and she is sensitive to light on one side. I was amazed...sunglasses for my horse. (It laces in so she only has the goggle on the injured side)
Oh, by the way, this lists me as a new member. I am the same Ella who has been here before. I guess I rejoined in a way that didn't keep previous information. Alas...
Ella |
