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Discussion on Young "Macho"
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Maria Alexandra Forte (Tite)
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 14, 2002 - 8:47 am: |   |
I know this isn't perhaps a new one, but I've been browsing through the posts on similar issues, articles on calming agents, and couldn't really find my horse's portrait!
He's a 6 year old Selle-Français colt, and his rider -a wonderful and very experienced young lady- describes him as a physycally lazy horse, with a fiery mind!
In fact, we've always fed him non-heating stuff, with added vegetable oil, and added pro-biotics and Thrive, by NAF, because his diggestion is upset in situations of stress, such as travelling or shows (he's a show-jumper, in novice classes level). We tried to reduce his food intake, only to have him lost weight and condition in an alarming way, while his mind remained exactly the same. We also tried increasing the level of exercise, only to have him sweating like a river, physically tired... but his mind exactly the same.
He's excited by the sight or smell of new horses, gets frightened and sometimes stallion-like when another horse goes past him (he actually used to rear and start neighing his head off) and on the other hand he hates being on his own. He's not spooky at all, he's a quick learner, and a very humble horse, really, who accepts authority very well, and, weird thing, when he goes into the show ring he behaves perfectly. It's just the "before" that's complicated, as it's difficult to find a balance between physicall and mental states.
He is currently competing in the Sunshine Tour in Spain, and while the first week was hell (to the point that the resident vet had to give him a calming agent to keep him from injuring himself and others) he seems to be getting used to all the athmosphere (1.500 horses there!), and has already competed in two classes with good results.
We've been giving him a relaxing syrup - FEI approved, of course)by NAF, and he's been behaving very well... but lucks a bit of "humpf" in his performance. Yesterday, we tried him without the syrup... and he lost concentration!
Any ideas to what might help this gorgeous horse, whom we would like to keep as a stallion and would only contemplate gelding as a last alternative, and who really behaves like a young "Macho", with his mind on the "girls" and "other boys' competition" all the time, but who is not physically hot?
Thank you in advance for any suggestions. |
Dennis A. Johnson (Dennisaj)
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2002 - 10:09 pm: | |
Dear Maria,
While we (that is my wife and me) profess no expertise on the Selle-Français breed and we have only limitied experience in Hunter/Jumper shows, we might offer some thoughts just off the cuff for what its worth. (at least the price is right!)
At 6 years old he is on the young end of the show scene. Perhaps, time will resolve your problems. We are assuming that the breed is like other warm-blood breeds which tend to mature late (like 7-8 years old) as opposed to an American Quarter Horse which is fully mature at 5 years old. [by "mature" we are referring to mainly mental maturity]
Nonetheless, we would suggest a firm hand whenever he exhibits stallion behaviour inappropriately. He should learn as soon as possible he has no leeway in that regard. Lessons learned now about what is permissable (or not) will stick for a long time perhaps the rest of his life.
However, count yourself lucky to have such an intelligent horse even though he will keeep you on your toes (as well as your handlers, groomer, trainer, rider, etc.) all the time!
We might further suggest that he be trained specifically (sooner is better than later) on when and how to be a stallion. Without resolving his "I want/I need a girl" preoccupation the problems will continue. Something we have done that has helped is to have a "special" stallion halter and lead rope. When he is wearing that halter with that lead rope, then he can be a stallion. Otherwise, he is expected (trained) to act like a gelding.
We tend avoid unneccesary medication and we adjust our feeding programs to overall level of work and energy needs. In this regard we have nothing to suggest.
Keep us posted on your progress. We love to hear from our fellow horse-lovers across the pond.
Dennis & Beth |
Maria Alexandra Forte (Tite)
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 18, 2002 - 6:09 am: | |
Thank you, Dennis and Beth, for your reply and very interesting suggestions.
I must say that this horse was badly managed at an age when he certainly could have used a thorough and appropriate training. He spent an year in France, when he was 4 years old, and the people he was with, and were supposed to train him and have him graded as a stallion (the horses have to compete in special young horses' classes before a jury who approves them as stallions) didn't really take care of him. He lost a lot of ground physically, and we found out that most of the days they didn't even bother to exercise him. Lately, judging from his behaviour, we actually suspect that, unknown to us, of course, they might have been using him to cover mares.
Well, anyway, ever since he got back, we have been training him properly, and caring for him properly (it took quite a while to get him well physically), and you're absolutely right in what this type of horse matures relatively late, so we've respected that issue in his training too.
However, after much debate - owner, trainer, rider, vet, groom (who's known him ever since he was born and dotes on him) - we all came to the conclusion that he will never be a performing stallion (both competing and breeding) as he simply does not concentrate on his job, and there's no way any breeder is going to want to use him for their mares if he hasn't proven to be a good sports' horses. Such is the way things go in this sport, and with so many reputed stallions available our boy wouldn't stand a chance.
So, as much as I've been reluctant to admit it, the best solution for this boy seems to be his castration. At least, he will be able to compete (I must say his talent is really something out of the ordinary... when he actually decides to behave and concentrate on what he's doing) with success... and without stress. It really breaks my heart to watch his anxiety, and the way he exerts himself at competitions, in that battle between body and mind!
By the way, we've used the special stallion halter (I wonder if the one you usually use is what we call a chiffney?), and trained him to it. But sometimes the "stallion hormone" level seems to be too much for him, with or without the chiffney... and we're in trouble anyway!
Whatever the outcome, I'll be happy to keep you posted on his progress. In the meantime, thank you very very much for your interest! |
Maria Alexandra Forte (Tite)
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 18, 2002 - 6:22 am: | |
I forgot to tell you that on the very day I posted my first message above, the "naughty" boy gave the rider "hell" during a class. He was calm enough before, and in the warm up ring, and then decided not to jump when the class began: Simply cocked his jaw, and took no notice of the rider's commands, refusing to jump and ending up being disquallified. The only thing he wanted to do was to join the horses he could see at the arena's entrance, and there was no way he was going to change his mind!
He's calm enough again, now, but still not competing again, as he gets much too upset. And... he's behaving like a dream at the training ring! Oh, boy, aren't young boys "terrible"? |
Dennis A. Johnson (Dennisaj)
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 18, 2002 - 8:46 am: | |
Dear Maria:
We agree that it's a great shame that mishandling at a critical time in his life has spoiled his chances as a show stallion. It sounds like the breeding and show competetion for the breed is very fierce and unforgiving.
We did a little bit of research on the Selle-Français breed and we were quite impressed. It almost seems that because of the heavy influence of the Thoroughbred that it might be called a "hot" warm blood.
We are familiar with the chiffney and it has a lot of use in racing circles and in stallion handling over here. We've not had to use it personally as the horses we've bred behaved well enough under standard halter (we've just been lucky in that regard!).
Good luck and lots of success in your endeavors!
Dennis & Beth |
Maria Alexandra Forte (Tite)
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 18, 2002 - 12:45 pm: | |
Thank you again for your encouragement and interest, Dennis and Beth.
If you would like to have an idea of our horses (the colt included), it will be a pleasure to welcome you to our site. In the Portuguese section, you can find very good pictures of our resident stallion - the colt's sire (and an exception to the rules, as he's the better behaved stallion I've ever seen, and he's a great show-jumper, too. His son seems to have taken more to his thoroughbred dam!...) - and of the colt and two of his sisters.
I'm afraid the English and French sections are still under construction, but there are some nice pictures there too.
The url is
http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/quintadalage/
Hope you enjoy meeting our babies! |
Maria Alexandra Forte (Tite)
| | Posted on Saturday, Feb 23, 2002 - 8:10 am: | |
Hi, there!
I thought you might like to take a look at the new and amazing (proud "mummy" as can be, I sure am!...) pictures of our young Macho, Indiscutable Vert, and his sister, Ileana Verte, on the internet. Check
http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/quintadalage/cavalos2.html
Keep in touch, and all the best for you both and your horses. |
Jordana Meisner (Presario)
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 24, 2002 - 8:52 pm: | |
Maria - what beautiful, scopey creatures they are! |
Dennis A. Johnson (Dennisaj)
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 24, 2002 - 10:58 pm: | |
Thank you for the link. What beautiful horses! And a jumping horse in form is poetry to the eyes.
Dennis & Beth |
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