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Stephanie Law (Stephdl)
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 22, 2002 - 10:10 am: |   |
I have a 14 year old Dutch Warmblood mare currently in dressage training in Germany. I have owned her for 3 years, and approximately a year ago I decided to put her on Regumate. She typically has severe, irrational anxiety over things such as flowers, tables, and other everyday items that surround the arena, and that she sees everyday. It didn't seem to get worse or better based on her heat cycle, but it was generally worse in the spring. The Regumate made a tremendous difference. She would occasionally spook at new things initially, but once she passed them and realized that they weren't going to hurt her she could calm down and forget about them. This is something she could not do without the Regumate. Unfortunately I'm starting to compete, and I've had to take her off of it because it is a banned substance, and her anxiety attacks have come back full force. Does this indicate she has some sort of hormonal imbalance that could be rectified with another treatment? Are there viable and permitted alternatives to Regumate? And why is Regumate banned? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 23, 2002 - 7:35 am: | |
I don't think it would be unreasonable to have your mare checked for hormonal abnormalities like may occur with ovarian tumors. They are occasionally reported to be Regumate responsive.
Assuming this checks out normal, and it most likely will, there is not a legal chemical alternative for you. The rules are written not to prohibit specific drugs so much as it is to cover any drug that changes behavior. I guess the folks at FEI feel horses on behavior altering drugs should not be allowed to compete against those not on behavior altering drugs.
If estrus is the problem there are alternatives if it requires estrus suppression, see Training Horses: Behavioral Problems: Suppressing Heat and Estral Behavior in Mares for more on this.
DrO |
Helen Weedon (Cara2)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 23, 2002 - 9:04 am: | |
Hi Stephanie,
My sympathies! My mare goes very giddy and silly when in season, although I have to admit she isn't ALOT better when not in season!!
I know Dr O is not a great supporter of alternative and herbal medicine but a friend of mine had a similar problem with her top-class show pony mare. She would mess about and not go forward properly in the ring when in season. My friend added some Oestress supplement to her food (its made by Natural Animal Feeds and contains amongst other things chaste berry) and since then the pony has had its best ever show season and all the problem behaviour has gone. As far as I'm aware its not a prohibited substance and therefore worth thinking about. |
Stephanie Law (Stephdl)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 23, 2002 - 12:41 pm: | |
Dr. O,
Thank you for the advice. I will schedule an appointment to have her checked for the tumors. As you mentioned I don't think this is the case, but it certainly won't hurt to make certain.
I find it interesting that the FEI prohibits Regumate which affects behavior through regulating hormones, yet they permit castration and ovariectomies. That's quite a bit more extreme than Regumate. Correcting hormonal and chemical imbalances won't train the horse to perform, it only allows the horse to be at their best for the training and performances (castration certainly doesn't guarantee a spot in the Olympics). If we aren't doing any harm to these horses (like pain killers and steroids will) then why should it not be permitted?
Helen,
Thanks also for the advice. I actually was just reading about a product called Hormonise which is also Chaste berry. Apparently the New Bolton center at Univ. of Pennsylvania just received a grant to do a full study on it. Unfortunately, they've just started so I guess we won't know anything for a while. I'm going to try it anyway unless anyone out there knows of any negative consequences. |
Sandra M. Howe (Sallytwh)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 23, 2002 - 3:36 pm: | |
There has been a trial done on Hormonise by Dr. Eleanor Kellon. This trial was done with the Cushing horse in mind but the Hormonise is also used for problems of mares. The information on this is in the Horse Journal Magazine or on the site: http://www.equiworld.com/uk/horsecare/veterinary/cushingssyndrome/ |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 24, 2002 - 6:33 am: | |
Hello All,
The USA Equestrian and I assume the FEI have a published paper called "PRACTICAL ADVICE REGARDING THE 2002 EQUINE DRUGS AND MEDICATIONS RULE" and it has this to say about the use of herbs:
The use of any so-called herbal or natural product to affect the performance of a horse or pony in a calming (tranquilizing) manner, an energizing (stimulant) manner, or a psychotropic (mood and/or behavior altering) manner, is expressly forbidden by the USA Equestrian Equine Drugs and Medications Rule, contrary to claims by those who manufacture and/or market such products for profit. If the product in question is effective as claimed, its use in a horse or pony is clearly a violation of USA Equestrian Rules. Even if such product is ineffective, its use constitutes unsportsmanlike conduct, in that its purpose is to achieve unfair advantage and/or dishonest gain.
If the herbs are effective they are, by definition, illegal under both the 2 sets of rules promulgated by this organization. Helen it is not that I do not support the use of herbals and look forward to their properties being better defined. I am against what I see as the wide spread abuse and misrepresentation in the advertising and marketing of these substances.
Pertaining to Horminase, I am not sure if you followed the use of Hormonise last year for the use of Cushings in The Advisor, but we have at least three testimonials that while they thought the product might be helping they switched back to Pergolide due to loss of control of symptoms when switching to Horminase. Of the number of people who wrote in about it I did not find any that recommended the product hands down as having helped their horse. I also find Dr. Kellon's results, linked to above and found in other parts of The Advisor, as very equivocol as to whether the Horminase was helpful or not. But just so Helen knows I am not picking on herbs, I feel the same way about the widespread veterinary use of cyproheptidine for the treatment of Cushings, they are both "alternative" to me.
DrO |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 24, 2002 - 7:02 am: | |
Stephanie,
I don't think castration as unfair, as one of your legal solutions is spaying your mare (See the article I referenced above).
DrO |
Stephanie Law (Stephdl)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 24, 2002 - 12:41 pm: | |
Dr. O,
Thanks for the heads up on the possibility that Hormonise may be illegal. The write up on the product specifically states that it will not test and is permitted, but according to what you quoted I'd say it probably isn't.
I mentioned ovariectomy along with castration. My argument is that these are much more extreme approaches to the same problem, and I don't understand if these procedures whose sole aim is to alter the behavior of the horse by changing the hormonal structure are acceptable then why isn't administering progesterone or Chaste berry?
I have another mare that I put on Regumate simply to keep her from coming into heat during the spring. She is a sensible horse with no anxiety distress, and the regumate did not alter her behavior in any way shape or form. It is not a tranquilizer, and it will not enhance the performance to any further degree than they would have on a normal good day (again unlike steroids, pain killers, or tranquilizers). If altering the horse's behavior hormonally by irreparably disfiguring the animal isn't unfair, then I simply can not understand the argument against hormonal regulation.
Maybe I'm just not understanding the drug, but if I'm competing my mare on regumate against a mare that has had an overiectomy, how is it possible to say that I have obtained an "unfair advantage"? Quite honestly since I can't regulate my mare's hormones I'd say it's the other way around, they definitely have an advantage over me.
I have an appointment scheduled for Monday to check her for the tumors. I'll let you know. And by the way, I have no idea why, but Regumate only costs $100 per liter here in Germany. Not that it matters since I can't use it. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 25, 2002 - 7:55 am: | |
I see....when you think about it like this your point about surgery being more radical than drugs makes perfect sense. But you are fighting history and convention and you might as well beat your head against the wall as rale about it. Let us know how the exam goes and while they are at it why don't you have them try the marble? You might be one of the lucky ones.
DrO |
Stephanie Law (Stephdl)
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 29, 2002 - 10:29 am: | |
I just returned from my first show here with Gracia (the mare in question), and she decided that the flowers at this show were not of the horse-eating variety so we did quite well. She was in season, but like I said before there just isn't any pattern to it. Just wish this were a little more predictable. But I think you're right about trying to get the thinking changed on these hormone therapies. If only the ancient Romans had thought of it. 
I'll ask about the marble, but I'm not sure if they will be aware of it. I haven't been overly impressed with the vets and clinics here. The majority of them won't even tube worm a horse because they've never been taught how. Different education system I guess. |
Stephanie Law (Stephdl)
| | Posted on Sunday, May 12, 2002 - 2:36 pm: | |
I just received the results from Gracia's hormone tests, and all is normal. No irregular estrogen levels.
I asked about the marble, and as I expected my vet had never heard of it. In fact, when I described it to him, and let him know that it had initially been studied in the Netherlands, he looked at me as if I had just flown in from Mars, and told me I was crazy. Rapid exchange of information and flexibility are not things one runs into very often here. |
Maryann Charles
New Member
Username: mlouise
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 7:14 pm: | |
Are there any articles about the equine marble anywhere? I have a customers horse that has one and when I asked their vet about it he was very vague about what it really does except that it is supposed to make the behavior better.
She is in season just like any other mare and I thought it was something that would help that.
What does it do? I want to know what to expect from it and what has been noticed about it?
Thanks
Maryann Charles |
Rachelle E. Morris
Member
Username: rtrotter
Post Number: 181
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 8:35 pm: | |
Maryann,
I am sure Dr. O will chime in to tell you to start a new discussion with your question, but I can give you first hand information, since I had one inserted as a last resort.
What it is supposed to do is simulate the mare being pregnant and thus lessen the severity of a mare's heat cycles. Since the mare is not really pregnant the heat cycles do not go away.
I did see a difference but it took several heat cycles to see it. The changes were subtle but an example would be she stopped pinning her ears and kicking the wall anytime anything other than another mare walked by. I was able to turn out another mare with her and she didn't try to kill her. Her attitude on the track improved and she became more consistent with going about her business.
When I asked my vet about problems, he said some mares slip the marble and that there was no way to know if that happened or not.
It can be removed, but with difficulty. I sold the mare in question and told the people that bought her she had the marble. I would think it would be something that should be disclosed when the horse is sold unless it was retrieved beforehand.
Rachelle |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22570
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 8:21 am: | |
Hello MaryAnn,
You will find an article that contains a number of alternatives and a description of the intrauterine marble at Treatments and Medications for Horses » Reproductive Drugs » Regumate & Progesterone » Alternatives to Regumate for behavioral problems. Rachele's experience is unusual in that it does not normally take several cycles to work though if the mare is mare than 12 or 14 days post ovulation she may have one more cycle. I think the oxytocin regimen described in the article shows great promise of being a inexpensive easy way to prevent cycling.
DrO
PS Rachelle, as MaryAnn was asking about directions to information in the post and not a new question about her horse it does not qualify as a "Start New Discussion" question. |
