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ANN COLLIER
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 349
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 5, 2004 - 10:19 am: |   |
Dr. O have you heard of this process being used on horses ?? http://www.vet-stem.com/index.html
Or is this just another way to get us poor horse owners money with false hopes of regenerating bone fractures..?
thanks for any input on this Ann |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 10397
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 8:26 am: | |
Usually fractures heal themselve fine if stabilized Ann and don't heal, no matter what you do, if not stabilized. This is the problem in horses. Can you let me know a little more about your situation? This type bone research is being done in other species but is not standard therapy and there is no work in horses.
There have been some initial studies and clinical experiences in equine tendon injuries with significant tears and defects that look promising. Stem cell research shows great promise in creating healing where healing is normally difficult but specfic techniques and applications are just now being researched.
DrO |
ANN COLLIER
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 351
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 10:18 am: | |
i got the above info from a friend, that understands my dilemma with my young horse..Picasso,.. this was his last report at UCD.." X- rays of the front feet revealed a navicular bone avulsion fracture of the LEFT forelimb navicular bone ( avulsion= piece of bone pulled off the parent bone by a ligament or tendon attachment). the avulsion fracture of the right forelimb extensor process was more rounded than previously, indicating chronicity. There was evidence of mild - moderate degenerative change in the coffin joint. Finalized radiology report is pending. we will call if there are any other significant findings.
COFFIN JOINT INJECTIONS on both front..."
the vets really can't find a reason why this has happened to him..his confirmation is correct, he has large/healthy shaped hoofs, good diet, not over worked.. plenty of turn out......i can tell you why.. this is MY 5% HORSE.. if it can happen it has..
she was hoping that something like the cell work would help him heal.. my feeling is that this is / will be a ''non healing'' fracture because of the fact we CAN'T stabilize it..
as of today, with the injections and egg bar shoes on he is sound on arena sand... so i guess i just have to take it one day at a time with him and just enjoy him as a backyard horse.. as attempting to show him , the costs, only to have him come up lame the day of would be to costly...
as always thanks for the info shared...
Ann |
Kristie Beaulieu
Member
Username: Brnrat
Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 14, 2004 - 12:31 pm: | |
Dear Ann,
Have you tried Rapid Response T to help him heal this fracture? Please have a look at www.amerdon.com and read the testamonials. This product seems to be extremely effective in fibrous and non-union fractures. It certainly is worth a try. My own warmblood dressage mare who had moderately severe suspensory ligament injury treated by stem cell/bone marrow transplant at Alamo Pintado also was placed on Rapid Response. Her suspensory was 50% healed at first ultrasound at 60 days post surgery. Am sure this had to do with the surgery, but vet was impressed and said to continue with Rapid Response. Hope this helps,
Kristie |
ANN COLLIER
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 385
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 14, 2004 - 4:49 pm: | |
Kristie, do you still have the label on this product..? i checked out the site, no where can i find what is in it... would you please type it out for me/us..
thanks Ann
|
Sandy Trautmann
Member
Username: Sandbox
Post Number: 5
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 15, 2004 - 6:57 am: | |
The product label appears at the bottom of section regarding Rapid Response - just keep scrolling down. I think it went like this - www.amerdon.com - Rapid Response (third choice on the left menu - read all the way to the end for the list of ingredients. |
ANN COLLIER
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 388
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 15, 2004 - 9:53 am: | |
ahhh i found it..
Dr. O have you heard of this product..? what do you think of the ingrediants.. ? and if already on supplements, adding this be over kill?
thanks as always Ann |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 481
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 15, 2004 - 10:07 am: | |
This sounds too good to be true! I too would like Dr. O's thoughts on this product.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 10809
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 18, 2004 - 9:48 am: | |
The ingredients read like the contents of an average diet supplemented with glucosamine. I see nothing remarkable about it except the price: there ought to be a law against this.
DrO |
Pepette
Member
Username: Pepette
Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 3, 2006 - 5:00 pm: | |
After receiving an enquiry from one of my students who has a horse with ringbone, I decided to do some research and read some articles. My focus was more on arthritis than injuries, but here is what I found (nothing on horses, but there were some pertaining to human studies).
It seems that more studies have been reported in the medical literature on the use of stem cell therapy in rheumatoid arthritis than osteoarthritis. In one report that I came across, 34 patients with severe juvenile rheumatoid arthritis who did not respond to previous treatment, autologous (meaning the patient’s own cells) stem cell transplantation resulted in 18 achieving complete drug-free remission. Six showed a partial response (ranging from 30% to 70% improvement) and seven were resistant to the treatment. There were three cases of transplant-related mortality and two of disease-related mortality. The researchers concluded that in severely ill patients with severe juvenile arthritis, autologous stem cell treatment induces a drug-free remission or an increase in general well-being in many patients, but the procedure carries a significant mortality risk. Recommendations were made to improve safety outcomes.
The program that my student was looking into obtained the stem cells from fat, not bone marrow. Research into fat-derived cells is still in the very early stages and many questions remain. I'm not convinced these cells deserve to be called stem cells, because I'm not sure they really do turn into other kinds of cells when transplanted into the body. Still, they do show promise for being used someday to treat disease.
Although stem cells derived from bone marrow are used with some efficacy, one concern that I have is that these adult-derived cells may not be as effective as cord blood and placental cells. Adult stem cells may contain more DNA abnormalities-caused by sunlight, toxins, etc. Those that receive their own stem cells might be prone to repeat the same disease. For breaks, torn tendons, and such, I guess that would not be a concern. A concern with adult stem cells, though, is the possibility the cells could form tumors, which was suggested by a paper that appeared in the April 15 issue of Cancer Research, an American Association for Cancer Research journal.
Last but not least, I would be absolutely certain that this procedure be performed by a vet at an equine hospital. I imagine that the purification, culturing, and growth of the cells would be performed in a lab associated with the vet. I would have to ask: How are the cells prepared? Are steps taken to ensure that they are not infectious? Can they be administered to the horse under sterile conditions? The service that my student was looking at was done at the barn...not very sterile.
I have run across some owners that will say that this is an animal or an investment, and as such, the results (degree and longevity of successful results, rate of infection and/or mortality, etc) should not be held to human studies standards. That would be up to the owner to decide if the risks and results, as well as the cost, would be worthwhile. I guess it depends on the severity of the problem, too. My horses are my babies, and I would not make this kind of decision lightly, nor without the endorsement of my vet.
For this to be a legitimate medical endeavor, I am wondering if it would not be cost-prohibitive for all but the most expensive competition animals or the most financially healthy owners.
Here is something I found from the NIH website:
Scientists must be able to easily and reproducibly manipulate stem cells so that they possess the necessary characteristics for successful differentiation, transplantation and engraftment. The following is a list of steps in successful cell-based treatments that scientists will have to learn to precisely control to bring such treatments to the clinic. To be useful for transplant purposes, stem cells must be reproducibly made to:
Proliferate extensively and generate sufficient quantities of tissue.
Differentiate into the desired cell type(s).
Survive in the recipient after transplant.
Integrate into the surrounding tissue after transplant.
Function appropriately for the duration of the recipient's life.
Avoid harming the recipient in any way.
To summarize, the promise of stem cell therapies is an exciting one, but significant technical hurdles remain that will only be overcome through years of intensive research.
Given what I have written here, I am not saying that one shouldn’t do it. I think a vet would be a more qualified person to answer that after examining the horse and assessing the total situation (the horse's and the owner's). But I do have my reservations. |
Alicia Kost
Member
Username: Aannk
Post Number: 567
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 6, 2006 - 12:46 pm: | |
I called the place in the past (vet stem) and the cost is 2200 dollars. I think that includes the vet injecting, but of course, you have to take your horse there.
Alicia |
