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Helen Weedon
Member
Username: Cara2
Post Number: 94
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 - 8:05 am: |   |
Hi Dr O,
I have a bit of a poser for you. My epileptic mare has been diagnosed with arthritis of the knees (carpitis)- actual bone growth can be felt at the bottom of the joint above the cannon bone. She has reduced mobility in the joint as a result. She was on-off lame and prone to stumbling throughout the summer and a flexion test revealed the answer. I immediately put her on a herbal supplement (Global Herbs - owned and run by a UK vet) and the usual chondroitin/glucosamine/MSM supplement. Within just 3 days she had stopped stumbling and was sound at trot provided we didn't do any circle work. I also put a magnetic knee support on her at night which if nothing else keeps it nice and warm. UK winters are not good for arthritis!
Obviously, most people's first line of attack would be an NSAID such as Bute. We discovered some time ago that phenobarbitol blocks its uptake ( and I would imagine the reverse effect is therefore likely too depending on which drug reaches the bloodstream first). I understand that this is because both are protein-bound. Do you know of any suitable drugs that travel slightly differently, on a different blood-protein maybe? I only want to see my old girl as comfortable as possible as we draw towards the end of her life but obviously a seizure is more immediately dangerous than a stiff knee. I'm very proud of the fact she has lived long enough to GET a condition of old age under the circumstances. She is still being ridden at weekends and is turned out from 8am to 5pm (she lived out 24/7 during the summer) which I know is a reasonable amount of exercise to keep her joints moving. She has always had a habit of resting the affected leg slightly forward but it is more obvious now. I have told my vet that at the first sign of her showing difficulty at walk then we will call it a day, I won't have her miserable. Right now she is still playing about with her field buddy quite happily. The only downside to making her more comfortable is that she tends to forget her age and overdo things and then of course she is really sore, the silly old fool.
Thanks Dr O.
Helen |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 11565
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 - 10:32 am: | |
Hello Helen,
I cannot find pharmaceutical information in the horse for flunixin or naproxen but using human work it appears that naproxen would both be effected by and have effects on the pharmacology of barbituates. Both are eliminated faster and have a lower therapeutic effect at a given dose. Since flunixin is also highly protein bound it has the potential too.
DJD of the knee responds wonderfully well to steroid/hyaluronate injections and they are easily performed and the very low systemic dose should cause minimal problems with the barbituates. You will find the improvement remarkable and your challenge will be not to increase the amount of exercise currently given: if you do the arthritis will advance faster. You will probably get about 6 months to a year out of an injection.
My last thought is the new topical NSAID "Surpass" (1% diclophenac) might be useful without effects on the phenobarb but unknown. In one study the amount detected in the blood follwoing administration was "very low".
DrO |
Christine Holmes Bukowski
Member
Username: Canyon28
Post Number: 93
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 - 2:53 pm: | |
have you also tried devils claw or yucca? I dont know if these will help much, but they are supposed to help with stiff joints. Devils claw cannot be given to preg mares, it will cause abortions. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 11570
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 26, 2004 - 7:31 am: | |
I would recommend the same caution with herbs that I would recommend with pharmaceuticals, in fact extra caution is warranted do to the lack of scientific scrutiny and the lack of standardization of these products.
DrO |
Helen Weedon
Member
Username: Cara2
Post Number: 95
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 26, 2004 - 7:48 am: | |
Dear Dr O
That is really helpful - thanks! I shall call my vet and ask him about it.
Thanks also Christine. As I said in my earlier post she is on a couple of "alternative" supplements already. I am rather wary of using devil's claw because of its hormonal effects - my mare's seizures are linked with her oestress cycle. As Dr O says, herbs can be very dangerous especially when used by the untrained. Having said that these supplements made such a drastic difference to her in a matter of hours I'm looking to see if they make a human equivalent!! She was stumbling in the field so frequently she had a permanent sore on the front of her pastern. Since starting on the supplements that disappeared in a matter of days and there is no evidence she has been stumbling bad enough to mark her again, and she insists on having a canter up the hayfield on our way home from a ride. I don't think it is quite what our vet had in mind when he said to keep her active but she doesn't give me much choice as she is an equine pogo-stick and knows her own mind as well.
I'll let you know how we go on Dr O.
Thanks
Helen |
Lori Doyle
New Member
Username: Lorid
Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 - 4:35 pm: | |
Hi Dr. O. What are your thoughts on the use of Duralactin for arthritis and its associated symptoms? The trainer at my barn thinks it is great because it helps without using NSAIDS and their associated drawbacks. What are the drawbacks of using this preparation, if any? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14851
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 20, 2006 - 8:28 am: | |
Hello Lori,
What is in Duralactin and what is the dosage rate?
DrO |
Lori Doyle
Member
Username: Lorid
Post Number: 6
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 - 4:33 pm: | |
Hi Dr. O. Duralactin is a milk-derived, high protein product made from hyperimmunized cows that appears to inhibit neutrophil participation in the inflammatory response. It describes an immuno-nutritional aid for the management of chronic inflammatory conditions, including musculoskeletal disorders. Each scoop contains 7,000 mg of Microlactin, maltodextrin, molasses, and vanilla flavoring. There is a loading dose of three scoops per day (I can't remember for how long, but I will find out for you, if you wish) and then two scoops daily thereafter. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14855
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 - 7:04 am: | |
Oh that's right, I thought this sounded familiar. Run a search on Duralactin and you will find some recent discussions on this product and nothing I have read changes the information already provided.
DrO |
Liliana Velasco Ariza
Member
Username: Liliana5
Post Number: 37
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 - 8:24 pm: | |
Hi,
Since I saw your question I have been trying to remember the name of a herb I gave Patch my old mare, finally I remembered, it is called comfrey.
It seemed to work for her; she had it very bad in the knee. Also when it was very cold y wrapped a polo bandage loosely round her leg. I remember people also said that cod liver oil worked! She had it too so maybe it was the combination of the two! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14889
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 24, 2006 - 8:02 am: | |
Liliana,
When you say comfrey and cod liver oil worked for arthritis, are you saying it cured it? I have not seen any indication either of these are likely to have an effect on degenerative joint disease.
DrO |
