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Discussion on Problems with Quest?
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Member:
Paardex
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 10, 2005 - 2:55 pm:
After starting a Quest year last januari I foud a worm in the manure of 1 of my 2 horses.Thorough reading of the articles and descriptions made me decide it was probably a small strongyle. As both horses still seem to have worms{don't look like it, don't act like it in fact if they get any healthier I will refuse to take care of them any more ]should I start deworming before the 3 months are over?In the past they were dewormed with Pyrantel alternating with ivermectin/praziquantel 4 to 5 times a year. 9 acres of pasture 2 big horses manure removed from stable and pastures each day.
Second question: Quest isn't available with praziquantel in Holland!I was advised to switch to an ivermectin year. Tried buying quest plus by computer but US firms didn't want to send it to Europe. Any suggestions? In advance thanks from Holland for any reaction.
Jos
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 10, 2005 - 6:01 pm:
Hello jos,
Even with heavy infestations it is rare to find adult worms in the stool Jos. On the other hand there are some worms that get in the manure that did not come from the horse. I would have a fecal run to check the efficacy of your program. If you are deworming with ivermectin and Quest using our schedules and you still have worms: something is wrong with what you are doing (underdosing, horses spitting it out, etc..) that changing products will not help.
If you cannot find the praziquantel product you will have to use the old double dose of pyrantel twice yearly.
DrO
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Member:
Paardex
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 10, 2005 - 7:26 pm:
Thanks for the answer Dr.O,I didn't underdose and they didn't spit the Quest out, but I haven't used your schedules, just started in januari after thoroughly reading the article.Until then the vet always advised not to overdo the deworming to let them build up a bit of immunity . As we always sold the younghorses this seemed a good idea,they tended to be sold to buyers with lots of young horses. So they were dewormed 4 to 5 times a year with either pyrantel or ivermectin. As the worm I found was exactly described an matched the photo's of a strongoloid and was [dead]in manure in a clean stable I really wouldn't know wat else it could have been. Clean concrete stablefloor closed stable and nights 5 degrees celsius sub zero.Besides I have seen exactly the same worms after deworming horses with heavy infestations. So I suppose my system of the last few years was less then adequate. I will insist on a fecal run,altough it isn't much done over here If I ask for it I am usually told to just deworm again and not bother!However I want to know how bad the infestation is so I will insist. The praziquantel is available but only together with ivermectin. Switching to an ivermectin year seemed better as I was warned there is a big problem with pyrantel resistant worms, whhich also could be a reason for my problem right now.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Mar 11, 2005 - 7:01 am:
The overdo thing is a valid concern as the young who have never been exposed to parasites are much more sensitive as we discuss in the article. However the standard rotational program we outline has not eliminated parasites on the farms we have used it on.
What I don't understand is with the manure removal you should not be having serious parasite problems, unless this is a recent addition to your program. This will in combination with our program eliminate parasites over time from your farm.
DrO
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Member:
Paardex
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Posted on Friday, Mar 11, 2005 - 12:58 pm:
Dear Dr O,sorry to bother you again with this relatively small problem,but it just puzzles me.The only thing I can come up with as explanation is as follows: these horses grew up in France[40 horses about80 acres].In their last year in France the owners of the farm mentioned their French vet had told them they had ivermectin resistent worms and should only use pyrantel[wich they did]. As we had bought a new house with stables and pastures and were going to take the horses[5 at the time] home within six months and they seemed healthy enough when i visited them, I didnot try to find out wat exactly happened.I did however have one of the horses sent to a showjumper stable in Holland immediately after this story.We had another showjumper at this stable and I knew they had good vets attending their horses. The vet checked the mare on arrival blood was normal she seemed thinnish but healty and he suggested to contact the University of Utrecht and ask them how todeal with the worm thing. They replied they did not know of any resistancy for ivermectin but did for pyrantel.They suggested I would deworm one of the horses with pyrantel only for a year and another one with ivermectin.In their opinion the horse who would be badly infested after a year would have the resistant worms.I did not like this scheme sothey said then act normal use pyrantel in the beginning in case they have lots of worms after that alternate with ivermectin which I did. After consulting with the vet we now start to think they possibly have a resistent type of worm. Advise is use quest this year and do a fecalrun. The vets seem rather concerned about the idea of resistant worms.
Do you agree with the above?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 12, 2005 - 12:38 pm:
I like your plan better, perhaps the program just has not had enough time to clean out the burden from last year. I too think it unlikely you have a ivermectin resistance.
DrO
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Member:
Paardex
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 12, 2005 - 12:56 pm:
Thanks we will do as advised.I found a company in the UK who sends praziquantel tape worm gel all through Europe perhaps this is of interest for another European member. bgs@manorpharmacy.com.uk
Jos
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