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Sondra
Member
Username: sondra
Post Number: 43
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 9:33 am: |   |
I was wondering if anyone here has experiences using Traumeel (a topical homeopathic gel) for their horse's arthritis on the knee or other lower-limb area.
I usually reach for the Surpass for this type of topical med, but I have noticed more and more people using Traumeel at the racetrack and on sporthorses.
The description and ingredients are posted on a website as follows:
Description:
For the temporary relief of symptoms, including mild to moderate pain, associated with inflammatory, exudative and degenerative processes due to acute trauma, repetitive or overuse injuries, or arthritic conditions.
Unit Size:
Tube containing 50 grams of gel.
Dosage (my note - notice this is the human dosage):
Ointment/Gel: Apply generously to affected areas 2 to 3 times daily. Traumeel should be rubbed gently into the skin. Traumeel may be applied using mild compression bandaging and/or occlusive bandaging.
Contraindications:
Hypersensitivity to Traumeel or any of its ingredients. In rare cases, allergic skin reactions may develop. For external use only.
Ingredients:
Gel: Each 50 g contains: Calendula officinalis 1X, Hamamelis virginiana 1X, Arnica montana, radix 3X 0.75 g each; Aconitum napellus 3X, Belladonna 3X 0.5 g each; Bellis perennis 1X, Chamomilla 1X, Echinacea angustifolia 1X, Echinacea purpurea 1X 0.25 g each; Millefolium 1X 0.15 g; Hepar sulphuris calcareum 8X 0.125 g; Mercurius solubilis 8X 0.06 g; Symphytum officinale 4X 0.05 g; Hypericum perforatum 6X 0.045 g.
Inactive Ingredients:
Carbopol 980, ethanol, purified water, sodium hydroxide. |
jos
Member
Username: paardex
Post Number: 1260
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 11:28 am: | |
Traumeel is quite well known in Holland and Germany, though the gel is made recently the homeopathic drops already existed a long time. They have got a fair amount of Arnica in them. I know that at the one and only racetrack in Holland quite a few jockeys used them after a fall[internally I mean took the liquid drops] and were very content with them.
I had a homeopathic vet at some point who prescribed them for horses she didn't or wouldn't put on bute. Weird though this may sound my very pregnant arthritic mare who got them started bagging up so we didn't wait to see if the drops had any effect on her arthritis. Her bagging up stopped after the drops stopped[I know I know no scientific proof!]
My experience is that internal usually works stronger then external but as it is used a lot like I said in fi Holland and I've never heard of any ill effects why not try it?[apart from the costs I know!]
Jos
PS The hypersensitivity usually is due to the arnica montana |
Rachelle E. Morris
Member
Username: rtrotter
Post Number: 108
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 1:32 pm: | |
Sondra,
The problem with using Surpass on racehorses is that it comes up positive in drug tests. My vet told me it was fine to use as long as I wasn't planning on racing soon. He told me to use a 96 hour withdrawal time. As a result I do not use it at all. In fact, I do not use anything and my horses race cold (no medications at all). I rely instead on an excellent conditioning program, high quality hay and feed and 24/7 turnout. I use poultice and a lot of cold water.
In my very humble opinion, I think turning racehorses out most of the time eliminates many of the problems being treated with the drugs, such as bleeding, breathing and tying up. It also helps with many of the aches and pains ( including arthritis and a variety of joint problems) normally treated with injections. My horses get about 1/3 of the feed that I see other trainers feed, yet they are in great body condition, very fit and ready to race.
Rachelle |
Kathy in NM
Member
Username: klowe
Post Number: 86
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 2:37 pm: | |
Sondra, I am not sure about horses, but I do use the ointment version on my own sore muscles! I am not sure whether it would affect arthritis. Their package insert appears to state that there is clinical evidence for anti-inflammatory effects.
Personally, I was a skeptic, but it was recommended by my DO and after trying it, I do feel it has some positive impact. Just very expensive...
Kathy |
Sondra
Member
Username: sondra
Post Number: 44
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 2:53 pm: | |
Thanks for the responses so far.
Rachelle, I wasn't really looking for a lecture about how to best care for racehorses. I already know the benefits of turnout. What I was interested in was how effective Traumeel has been for horses with arthritis. My horse, in particular, is a jumper. And yes he gets lots of turnout. In fact, we believe the trauma he sustained to his knee - which is possibly arthritic - occurred during turnout.
And I might add, it is pure fantasy to expect all the racetracks of the world to start turning out 24/7. Sad but true. In the meantime it is still good to learn and research what meds might help out our beloved horses who have issues - racehorses or not. |
Rachelle E. Morris
Member
Username: rtrotter
Post Number: 110
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 3:57 pm: | |
Sondra,
Sorry, if my comment sounded like a lecture. It wasn't meant to be. My comment was related to why racehorse and sporthorse people were turning away from Surpass towards Traumeel. People want a product that they can use to make their horses more comfortable up until the event, not having to stop as with Surpass 96 hours before. Also, Surpass is very expensive and I am guessing Traumeel is not, and most likely one does not need a prescription for the Traumeel as they do for Surpass. I guess what I am trying to get at here is that there are other reasons why racehorse and sporthorse people would switch to a different product and it does not necessarily mean that one product is better than the other. But, perhaps in the case of Traumeel it is more user friendly than Surpass.
The other reason I posted ( and this forum sometimes is my soapbox)is that a lot of people read these posts and whenever I can educate them about different segments of the racehorse business I try to do so, even if at times its my own opinions and my 30+ years of experience.
I realize that not all racehorses (or riding horses) can be turned out 24/7, but mine are and I find that I have less problems because they are. I too have had horses get hurt in the field, I do my best to fix them, if I can't they go into retirement in my backyard.
As far as researching what meds can help our horses. I think this is great and this forum is just the place to do it.
Once again I apologize and I'll get off my soapbox now.
Rachelle |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 21948
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 9:31 am: | |
Hello Sondra, I see by the ingredients that this is a true homeopathic concentration (using very dilute preparations of the ingredients and relying on a "magic spin" of the water molecules to act some sort of effect) and as such has no known physical mode of action. For more on homeopathic preparations see Member's Services » The Lounge: Kick back and relax. » Alternative Medicine and Epistemology » Homeopathy.
DrO |
lwmilne
Member
Username: lwmilne
Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 20, 2009 - 8:11 pm: | |
Dr. O- I have checked several of your comments regarding arnica. It sounds as if you do not find any proven effect of this. Is this true at all concentrations that you are familiar with or just at the dilute concentrations you mention above. Do you see any indication for its use in non-specific lameness? If so, how would you recommend using it (ie. topically/orally, timing, etc) |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23617
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Aug 21, 2009 - 3:25 am: | |
Hello lwmilme,
Arnica montana has a fairly long history of topical use and some publications known for there "loose" research have found positive effects on some diseases. More scientifically there have been some fairly well identified anti-inflammatory components of this plant.
But the combination of poor experimental support for a medical use, established variability in the natural product, lack of toxicity studies, and the subjective impression these products are not more effective than well established approved medical therapy clearly puts this in the "experimental category" of medicine.
DrO |
KATHLEEN WHEAT
Member
Username: kathleen
Post Number: 837
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Aug 21, 2009 - 5:36 am: | |
DrO,
I was reading the above post from the beginning and noticed that in the ingredients the strength of arnica is "Arnica montana, radix 3X 0.75 g each". I know the normal dose of arnica in the little round pills is listed as 2X, 3X etc, but this says radix 3X 0.75g each. Do you know what this means?
BTW I have used Traumeel for years and have found that for some uses, like recently sore muscles, it seems to help, but for my arthritic hands it doesn't seem to help. Just MHO.
Thanks
Kathleen |
KATHLEEN WHEAT
Member
Username: kathleen
Post Number: 838
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Aug 21, 2009 - 5:38 am: | |
Unless I am up VERY early, the post time seems a bit early. Here in San Antonio the time is 9:00am. |
