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J Nicola Stinchcombe
New Member
Username: nikky19
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2009 - 10:29 pm: |   |
I am wondering if anyone has used Breathe EZ by Equine Gold. In November 2001 Horse Journal had an article about chronic cough and they recommended this product.
I am wondering because I have a 6-year old who is coughing during exercise, especially canter. He was in training in a very dusty arena in a closed in barn and had no turnout for 60 days. I think this must have sensitized him and I'm now facing a situation that could lead to COPD. He is now in a relatively open barn, but it does face the arena which doesn't appear dusty and which has open sides. He enjoys daily turnout. His hay is now being soaked to remove dust though it wouldn't take care of fungal spores I realize.
Anyway, the Horse Journal saw improvement in a few days, and tomorrow morning he will have had two full days on the supplement. He does not cough in his stall or outside or at walk, slightly at trot and more so at canter... beginning, and during the whole exercise program. After three coughs, we walk.
Any input from anyone who has used this product would be greatly appreciated or any advise of course. Thanks. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22262
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 5, 2009 - 9:19 am: | |
Hello J,
I have had serious problems with the veterinary research carried out by the Horse Journal though this is not one I am aware of. So I went and looked at the product and expected a herbal supplement of some sort. To my surprise this was a "mechanical device" causing the horse to snort repeatedly and hopefully bring up secretions. I could see this clearing the nose, trachea, and maybe even upper bronchial tubes, but because of the nature of the physiology of the lungs it is unlikely to clear the lower airways especially the terminal bronchioles and alveolar. At this level there is very little "forced movement of air" during respiration. Instead at this lower levels there are very mild currents and diffusion. On the other hand they do "coupage" in humans with COPD and other diseases with difficult to remove secretions but again this may be just to help clear clogged bronchi. Whether the horse snorting is going to clear these terminal airways works or not is important as these are an important component of the problems with COPD.
DrO |
J Nicola Stinchcombe
New Member
Username: nikky19
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 5, 2009 - 5:19 pm: | |
I see that they do have a mechanical devise called Breath E-Z, but actually the product I'm asking about is a Chinese Herbal one called Breathe EZ by Equine Gold. Kind of confusing the names are so similar! Thanks for the reply. |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: imogen
Post Number: 1239
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 3:08 am: | |
Dr O - just an aside - I have seen physiotherapy for COPD and cystic fibrosis related lung congestion done in practice. It involves turning the human as upside down as possible which might be a little difficult in horses... |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22271
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 7:22 am: | |
Does it say which herbs J?
Dro |
J Nicola Stinchcombe
Member
Username: nikky19
Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 11:36 am: | |
Yes it does.... Huang Qi, Dan Shen, Ji Geng, Kun Bu, Gui Zhi, Wu Jia Pi, Nan Sha Shen, Bei Sha Shen. Whew! These are the active ingredients per 14gm dose per their label. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22281
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 10:45 pm: | |
I plead clueless, my Mandarin just isn't what it use to be. There are not any herbal remedies that I am aware of that may actually help with the serious problem of COPD. I guess when I have a stuffy nose I think menthol makes me feel better.
I strongly recommend you read the article Diseases of Horses » Respiratory System » Chronic Cough Without Fever.
DrO |
warthog
Member
Username: warthog
Post Number: 48
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 11:30 pm: | |
our 26 year old had a severe cough for four years. we washed the hay, tried several different types of grass hay, used various antihistamines, and tried several other things. she lost weight and we were really worried about her. Our hay situation reach the point where we had to start feeding all alfalfa - double compressed pasture bales to be precise. Miraculously the cough disappeared almost immediately, she put on weight and looked and acted ten years younger and even though we have now put grass hay back in with her along with the alfalfa she no longer coughs.
we had tried timothy alfalfa for a while with no improvement but double compressed straight alfalfa was amazing so you might try eliminating all hay and try alfalfa or maybe one of the forage products that have a light molasses coating because obviously she was very allergic to several different hays or dusts or molds in the hays and in the pasture and eliminating them stopped the problem completely. good luck finding a solution. |
J Nicola Stinchcombe
Member
Username: nikky19
Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, Feb 7, 2009 - 5:56 pm: | |
Thanks so much Dr. O and Warthog. The vet came out Thursday, gave a cortisone shot, advised no work for three days, continue soaking hay - start work Sunday, see how things go. He didn't hear any sounds from lungs (crackling, popping, wheezing etc.), but could hear them working at rest, which isn't normal I understand. On stroking the trachea he got a juicy cough - feels we have caught the problem early and are watching this. Had heard of BreatheEZ, saw no problem in continuing (:"might help"). Wait on cubes to see how he reacts to this. Said barn horse is in is the most open, dust free environment he has seen in a commercial barn. Where he went for training was the "sensitizing" environment. Diagnosis: IAP.
I will take his and Dr. O's advise into consideration and thanks to Warthog for suggesting compressed alfalfa. I am relieved that this has not yet done damage to the lungs. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22288
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Feb 7, 2009 - 10:04 pm: | |
Be sure to read the reference above and follow the links to the article on COPD J some of the recommendations you have been given are not consistent with the most common causes of this type cough.
DrO |
J Nicola Stinchcombe
Member
Username: nikky19
Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, Feb 7, 2009 - 11:54 pm: | |
My understanding of what you are saying then is... that I should initiate the horse cubes (does that include compressed hay to which I have access?) rather than the course advised by the local vet? Upon reading the article it would seem that my local vet is treating the case symptomatically rather than environmentally.. yes?
The area where my horse is now boarded definitely has good fresh ventilation as two sides are completely open with two end doors also opened during the day ie there is a lot of cross ventilation and the horses are never "closed in". He is turned out daily and fed lunch on the ground outside. This is vastly different to where he spent the previous 60 days, which was very dusty, both in the arena and barn area, with hay stored overhead, closed environment and with no turnout.
I guess I am hoping that with the change in environment, treatment by the vet, and hay changes that this cough can be managed?
I'm afraid this must seem like a recurrent wheel to you on this subject, but I still feel the need for clarification. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22294
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 8, 2009 - 7:44 am: | |
J, while I can tell you what current scientific research tells us about COPD and I can tell you how I treat COPD. A very common problem in our area. But you have the difficult job making the judgements and decisions. As to your direct question about hay cubes they will be one of the most dust (mold spores) free forages you can offer other than grass and a good choice when the hay will not do.
DrO |
J Nicola Stinchcombe
Member
Username: nikky19
Post Number: 9
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 10, 2009 - 10:55 pm: | |
Thanks Dr. O for the encouraging words. As my horse is still coughing in the arena (though less), I have decided to bring him back home, turn him out and forgo riding as long as the winter is with us - hopefully my outdoor arena will dry out enough sometimes to be able to ride him then. I will also switch to hay cubes and work on managing this situation before serious damage is done.
As to compressed hay.... it would seem to me that once it springs open it would be open to picking up molds then, though Warthog seems to have no problem with that. I will be managing, watching and keeping my fingers crossed! Also keeping in touch with my local vet of course and of course, consulting with you from time to time though I am sure you feel there is not much you can add at this time - I get that this is a management situation that I have to handle.
One last question: Do you feel that storing the bags of hay cubes in plastic garbage cans is the best way to keep moisture from entering the bag of cubes once opened?
Thanks again. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22322
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 6:07 am: | |
The best container will depend on your conditions and at its simplest the decision is one of whether it should breath or not. You have to be careful about containers that "seal". As temperature changes, but the amount of moisture does not, increased humidity and condensation is possible. However if you storage area has a relatively constant temperature or at least one that changes fairly slow and the sun does not fall on the container a sealed plastic container should work for the very dry cubes.
DrO |
J Nicola Stinchcombe
Member
Username: nikky19
Post Number: 10
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 12:15 pm: | |
Good advise - thanks. |
J Nicola Stinchcombe
Member
Username: nikky19
Post Number: 11
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 16, 2009 - 12:18 am: | |
Sorry, I'm back again! I brought my horse home yesterday and opened the Triple Crown Alfalfa/Timothy cube bag, to find not just the cubes but a lot of what I would call chaff (dry short pieces) in the bag too. I soaked this and the cubes together, but am not sure if I shouldn't chuck the chaff as it could possibly be irritating or do I consider that this has flaked off from the cubes and is therefore considered to be as free of mold spores as the cubes? Wouldn't this then put it on the same page as the double compressed alfalfa bales that Warthog was talking about? Thanks again. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22358
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 16, 2009 - 7:16 am: | |
While I am uncertain about the similarity to warthog's reference, this loose material should be perfectly fine to feed, especially if soaked.
DrO |
J Nicola Stinchcombe
Member
Username: nikky19
Post Number: 12
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 16, 2009 - 4:05 pm: | |
thanks! |
J Nicola Stinchcombe
Member
Username: nikky19
Post Number: 15
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 - 12:32 pm: | |
Ok... more questions now. My vet put my horse on Clenbuterol 6 days ago - 5cc bid first five days, 5cc once a day following five days. I've read your article about it and I don't seem to be having any adverse affects. Also continuing with hay cubes and not exercised him for 6 days now. He is fed outside, can go in and out of his stall at will, out on pasture 5-6 hours, but still I hear him cough in the morning when eating - not as deep but present. Strangely enough I have been coughing myself for about the same amount of time - could we possibly be sharing a virus?
I see you prefer prednisolone (spelling error?) but don't the side effects seem more serious? Colic, founder etc.
My horse will be on the present medication for a further five days and I want to be armed with sufficient information and questions when I check back in with the local vet. Thanks so much |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22406
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 - 6:53 pm: | |
I have many horses in my practice that quit coughing when they are not allowed any access to the barn, but not before.
It is very unlikely that you have caught your horses cough.
I personally don't think those are common or even rare side effects of reasonable steroid use for more see Treatments and Medications for Horses » Anti-inflammatories (NSAID's, Steroids, Arthritis Rx) » Steroids, Overview of Antiinflammatory Use.
DrO |
