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Message |
    
Mary Schultz
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 13, 1999 - 5:05 pm: |   |
Dr. O,
Another question on deworming - I know, not a glamorous topic, but I STILL feel I don't have the entire picture. I put in a new thread because it is about specific wormers, rather than my horse in particular.
Let me see if I have this straight from the articles on this site -
- avermectins (ivermectin) kill adult parasites and most circulating larvae but NOT encycted L4 stages, and NOT tapes
- mibemycins (quest) kill adult parasites and most circulating larvae but AND 4th stage larvae
Is 'encycted L4 stages' and '4th stage larvae' the same thing? If so, is that implying that horse people should drop the avermectins in favor of the mibemycins?
Regarding Quest in particular, the barn manager where I board used this product about a year ago on her horse for the first time. (first time Quest, not first time dewormed). The horse had a colic episode following the deworming that was (at least by her) associated with the use of Quest. She contacted the manufacturer who stated that it was possible to have a large kill off of parasites that may cause a problem, but it was not typical. Have you had any experience with colic episodes following changes in deworming programs?
Thanks for your input, I hope that's all for now on dewormers!
Mary |
The Advisor Vet, RN Oglesby DVM
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 14, 1999 - 6:49 am: | |
No not all L4s are encysted and the encysted stages are harder to kill. Something to correct is that the larva of small strongyles do not circulate in the blood they are all in the wall of the bowel.
No I have had no colic problems with Quest. We saw the same thing when we first started using invermectin in the early 80's (late 70's?): a kill off of large numbers of larvae resulted in transient colics.
DrO |
josephine milano (Jojo15)
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 15, 2001 - 12:38 pm: | |
Dr. O I have been reading this over and over. ( first post question) I think its the way it is said that is confusing me. please clarify.
{Let me see if I have this straight from the articles on this site -
- avermectins (ivermectin) kill adult parasites and most circulating larvae but NOT encysted L4 stages, and NOT tapes
- mibemycins (quest) kill adult parasites and most circulating larvae but AND 4th stage larvae }
SO, moxidectins (Quest) kills 4th stage encysted larvae and 4th stage larvae ? And Ivermectins kill 4th stage larvae only but not encysted?
thanks. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 17, 2001 - 8:30 am: | |
How does that Avis commecial go: no, not exactly. Though the literature is a bit mixed in how this is explained which probably means there is some confusion I believe it works like this: Invermectin is effective against the later L4's and L5's that are in the migrating stage and about to become adults, while Quest gets the earlier L4s, in the mucosal stages. I am afraid both have limited efficacy against the encysted L4's.
DrO |
josephine milano (Jojo15)
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 17, 2001 - 11:02 am: | |
So, what works on the encysted l4 stage larvae. And the word encysted, means to me stuck, burrowing, into the bowel? At this point what gets rid of them?
Can a horse at this stage die from worming? Since the body would go thru such a shock, if he was infested?
Oh, sure i am just starting to under stand the l4 stage and you throw in l5 into it? |
Shelley Wiley (Swiley)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 18, 2001 - 6:00 pm: | |
I belive I can help here. Ive had a pony with recurring colic since last fall. Weve done test after test and finaly decided she had a bad case of encysted worms. This was based on a certain enzyme in a blood test, anemia & occult blood in a fecal(no worm evidence otherwise). There were no other indications no weight loss only a depresssed state and recurring mild colic. Hard stools were also a symptom but wormy horses are supposed to had loose stools. After being on several wormers including quest, ivermectrin, strongid, and strongid daily I gave her Panacure for 5 days. A week after starting the Panacur she started to have sporatic diarreha for about a week (no obvious colic). After that was over, she has been in top form. good appetite, sparkle to her eye and a swing to her gaits. Its been over a month with some pretty hot weather and she still looks good. As far as how she got that bad Im not sure. Ive had many horses over the years under less clean conditions with no problem. She has always had her own paddock and never shared areas with the other horses. |
Sally Payette (1sally)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 18, 2001 - 6:47 pm: | |
Shelly,
Did you give her the normal one time dose every day for 5 days? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2001 - 7:00 am: | |
I have included the dose rate for the larvacidal doseage regimen of Panacur in the article. Josephine encysted means encapsulated and as the article points out, this is a dormant form of the larvae that is particularly resistant to treatment and no horses do not die whenever encysted forms are treated. Treating heavily parasitized horses do run a risk see, Care for Horses: Nutrition: Rehabilitating Malnourished Horses for more on this.
DrO |
Shelley Wiley (Swiley)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2001 - 12:34 pm: | |
Sally,
Talked to my vet she said the dose was 10 mg per Kg weight each day. This is a double dose for five days.
Dr. O
Is encysted dormat the same as L4 stage?
How long do they stay dormant for ?
I am trying to figure out how my pony got so bad.
Shelley |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 21, 2001 - 7:22 am: | |
Hello Shelly,
We handle the L4 vs encysted question above. Concerning how long they remain dormant once encysted it is variable and dependent on specie with each of the strongyles having its own time between the time of ingestion and when it becomes a adult. This time ranges from six weeks to 4 months.
It is important to realize that the parasites, particularly the small strongyles, can hibernate (hypobiosis is the proper term) in the encysted stage for at least 4 months and I have seen some authors suggest up to eight months.
DrO |
