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Debra Dove
Member
Username: 9193
Post Number: 162
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 - 2:19 pm: |   |
On March 14, my vet did a lameness exam which showed a 4+ lamness in Justin's left front fetlock.. Vet suspected arthritis and recommended xrays to confirm or rule out arthritis, bone chip ect. He recommended 1Gm bute per day for the next two weeks for comfort. He has tolerated the amount just fine and has seemed to my daughter and I comfortable and sound as we start building up the trotting again. We are only at two minutes of trot during a one hour ride.
My horse had digital radiographs of his fetlocks and hocks to confirm a diagnosis of mild arthritis in his left fetlock. (I had had conventional xrays done of his hocks over a year ago, so this was for comparison purposes)
My horse has been in rehab for 11 months to heal a multiple tendon/ligament injury to his left leg. I have been applying Surpass regularly to the tendons as recommended by our rehab vet.
The theory is that as we have tried building up our trot time, then the arthritis flares up and has been causing the feeling of being "off" as we get to the 9-12 minute trot level of the rehab protocol.
My regular vet recommends that we give 1Gm bute five days on and two days off per week to help with the arthritis in the fetlock and hocks. The tendons are still healing and so the Surpass needs to be used. He will have his hocks injected next week.
In reading literature regarding Bute and Surpass, I am concerned about "layering" the two medications and causing a GI problem..
I want to help the arthritis, but am concerned that the Bute may mask any re-injury signs to the rehabbing leg. I could just use the Surpass on his fetlocks and tendons, but it is pricey. For long term support, the bute is more cost effective and it works!
I was thinking I would try a program of 1 week on of Bute and then 1 week off of Bute to evaluate his soundness (and give his gut a break)as we progress with his trotting rehab. During his "off Bute" week I would apply the Surpass. Does this seem like a reasonable plan for the next month or two? Or longer?
We will continue his daily Glucosamine HCL and twice monthly Adequan shots as we have been doing for the last 11 months.
Since the arthritis won't go away, I am interested in how other folks manage their "teenagers" with arthritis and keep them comfortable doing training, trail rides and cold weather. I have arthritis in my knee and can walk all day long, but please don't ask me to run very far or fast.. I suspect learning to manage Justin's limits will run parallel to my own experience.
Smiles,
Debra |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 15213
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 31, 2006 - 8:12 am: | |
Debra was this the first bout of lameness on this fetlock and what did the radiographs say?
DrO |
Debra Dove
Member
Username: 9193
Post Number: 166
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 - 1:26 pm: | |
Sorry for the delay in responding Dr O. A spring break trip to Washington DC and another episode of colic right before we left kept me from some computer time.
I have not seen the radiographs myself, but my vet called and we had an unrushed conversation in which he stated that the fetlock showed some mild arthritis, which for 16 years old and his track/jumping history, was not as impressive as he was expecting. There is some closing of the edges and some calcium buildup on the lateral side, but compared to the range of arthritis he has seen, it is relatively mild and he feels a regular course of bute 1 gram per day for five days on and two days off with regular exercise is the way to manage this issue at this time.
Was this the first bout of lamness in the fetlock? I honestly couldn't tell you.
The flexion test was the most dramatic example of a possible problem in the fetlock. I have been so focused on tendon /ligaments/lameness that the possibility of fetlock arthritis lameness never crossed my mind.
My vet understood my concern regarding the use of the bute masking any re-injury problems with the tendon/ligaments. He felt that with the 85-90% healing that has occured up to this point, that the tendons are less likely to cause pain compared to the arthritis, but if there is ANY lameness concerns to call him immediately. He also pulled blood for a baseline panel since we will be on a long term bute regime.
Is it better to apply the Surpass before or after a ride? I usually apply it on the front legs after I ride because I use splint boots. But is it OK to apply Surpass to the hocks before a ride?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Smiles,
Debra |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 15423
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 - 8:45 am: | |
I think better before and as long as there are no label warnings about using it before exercise I cannot see a reason not to.
DrO |
Fran C
Member
Username: Canter
Post Number: 462
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 - 1:02 pm: | |
Debra,
I've noticed in the ads for Surpass that it's advertised as something you'd put on prior to exercise to make the horse more comfortable during work. Two years ago, when my mare received the OK to go back to work after a hock injury, I used it before my rides. I honestly don't know if it did anything for her, but it did no harm, either. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 15430
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 21, 2006 - 7:06 am: | |
Fran my experiences with Surpass have not impressed me either and though I have one tube on the truck, I always reach for oral bute first.
DrO |
Debra Dove
Member
Username: 9193
Post Number: 167
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 21, 2006 - 12:04 pm: | |
At $70.00 a tube I am also curious what others' experience has been with the Surpass. I've been rubbing it on the left front tendon/ligaments and the LF ankle as prescribed by the vet, but I am inclined to hold off on the Surpass and just see if the bute keeps my horse comfortable as we build up the trot times again.
Smiles,
Debra |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 15446
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Apr 23, 2006 - 10:58 am: | |
It is quite a few years of HA subscription!
DrO |
Debra Dove
Member
Username: 9193
Post Number: 168
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Apr 23, 2006 - 9:38 pm: | |
Touche...hard to argue that logic!!
Smiles,
Debra |
Janice
New Member
Username: Osage
Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 6, 2006 - 11:10 pm: | |
I have a horse with suspensory desmitis that I've started to use Surpass on.
I use a laser targeted thermometer to compare the medial suspensories in the right and left front legs.
I used to use Bute, 1 gm. every 12 hours during bouts of inflammation, and still saw about a 3 degree difference between the legs. I've just switched to using Surpass instead, and have found there's now no temperature difference between the good and bad leg.
I just wanted to pass along that objective evidence. It's so hard to quantify which is better, and I agree that Surpass is quite expensive. But for heat and inflammation, maybe it's worth it. I'm using about half the recommended dosage so that helps a little bit, too.
Janice |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16073
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2006 - 9:55 am: | |
Thanks for the information Janice we really appreciate such information. I must say in about 6 cases now that for arthritis, particularly hock and knee DJD, I have not had as much success controlling pain with Surpass when used as directed compared to 1 gram bute / 1000 lbs twice daily.
DrO |
Joanie Davison
Member
Username: jd1947
Post Number: 182
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 4:54 pm: | |
Just to chime in here with my two cents...I also tried Surpass on my mare with arthritic hocks...went thru two tubes (a big owie to the budget) and saw no difference in her. Too bad, would have been nice if it'd helped. |
Kristen Hughes
Member
Username: hughekl
Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 2, 2007 - 3:34 pm: | |
Just my 2 cents.... My vet just diagnosed my horse with a small bone spur in his right front ankle and mild arthritis in his hocks (he was showing lameness on the right front, which was what prompted me to take him in.) He said I could give him bute before I ride, or I could apply Surpass both before and after the ride to his hock joints and ankle. I opted to give the Surpass a try. I applied it about 30min before I tacked up and then warmed up for awhile in the indoor arena... it did nothing for my horse, he was still favoring his right front. I then used the 2gm of bute the vet suggested as an alternative and was able to trail ride my horse without him showing any lameness at the walk or trot. The Surpass cost me about $55 for the tube and I'm really not sure it's doing much for my horse compared to the bute.... I'm not sure how long the Surpass is supposed to soak in before it should be effective ??? Meaning, if my horse didn't have relief after 1hr, did that mean the surpass wasn't working ?? |
Joanie Davison
Member
Username: jd1947
Post Number: 274
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 3, 2007 - 9:15 pm: | |
Looks like the verdict on Surpass isn't very good...I know I was pretty darn angry spending so much money for nothing!!
Just an update here...I have started my mares on the Adequan IM series...Thurs the 5th will be injection #3...so far I don't see any difference in either mare, but I realize I may not see results until I finish all the injections...
by the way, on this subject, I was reading an interview with a race track vet, Dr.Steve Allday...he is a specialist in lameness issues and I found out it was Dr.Allday and another vet that formulated the HA joint sup called 'LubriSyn' and uses it (needless to say) with great sucess...I am going to look into this. I plan on adding an HA sup for the mares and may go with this one since it was formulated by Dr.Allday...I want to wait first to see if the Adequan helps.
Have a good one. |
Ann
Member
Username: dres
Post Number: 1364
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 3, 2007 - 9:39 pm: | |
Joanie, I used the Surpass as well with NO results from it other then an empty pocket book.. But i used it for different reasons.. on my fillies injured tendon..
I have use the Adequane injections on a mare with shoulder bursitis, first the loading dose now injections every 3 weeks.. I DO see / FEEL a difference in her shoulder ..
Good luck.. its a guessing game which if any , will work for you and your horse..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots. |
Kim
Member
Username: twhgait
Post Number: 224
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 4, 2007 - 10:38 am: | |
My vet gave me a tube (it was nearing expiration so no charge, thank goodness!) of Surpass and it didn't do anything for my mares knee arthritis. I thought maybe her arthritis was just too advanced, but now I see this stuff probably just doesn't work! |
Joanie Davison
Member
Username: jd1947
Post Number: 276
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 4, 2007 - 6:04 pm: | |
Ann & Kim,
Kim, thank goodness your tube was a freebie...Surpass is a good idea, but I think now that it's like so many creams, lotions & potions I've tried for my own pain, some make it feels better for a few minutes, but most are a waste of money. I just live with my pain, but I'll be damned if I'll let my beloved mares live that way...and the worst of it is we can't ask them just how much they hurt...so we see them walk on eggs, limp along and WE feel the pain...gggrrr!!
Ann, your post makes me hope that the Adequan will help my mares...I am thinking very positive about it...when did you see it helping? Did you need to wait until the entire series of shots was given?
Hey...it's the 4th of July...and all we are doing today is working...I am just checking my emails, then out to feed the horses...well, I guess my husband and me can watch the fireworks from town while we irrigate tonight...and I think I'll fire up the old BBQ to cook dinner...tah-tah!!!
HAPPY 4TH!!!  |
Ann
Member
Username: dres
Post Number: 1367
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 4, 2007 - 6:20 pm: | |
Joanie.. I noticed the change after her 3rd loading shot.. I wish i could give her the monthly shot more often then 3 weeks.. as i can feel her taking longer to warm up in the last week before her shot..  After her shot, the warm up is much shorter..
HAPPY 4TH to you as well..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots. |
Joanie Davison
Member
Username: jd1947
Post Number: 278
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 5, 2007 - 6:15 pm: | |
Thanks, Ann... I'll be giving them shot #3 tonight.
I assume your referrence to 'loading dose' is the entire 7 injections? Then, if it helps, you give a shot when they need it?
Hope you had a good 4th...we worked all day, but did see the fireworks just before bedtime from our backyard...they were so pretty!! |
Ann
Member
Username: dres
Post Number: 1369
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 5, 2007 - 6:56 pm: | |
Yes Joanie, i did the entire 7 loading series.. Now i give her a shot every 3 weeks.. One time before a big clinic i gave her the shot with just 2 weeks out.. I wanted her supple and willing with no pain.. So far so good... ALSO i have her on oral joint supplements too.. Not sure if they are getting in her system and working but am not willing to find out and chance she will be sore again.. 
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.. |
Christine Libby
New Member
Username: ynotgold
Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 - 6:14 pm: | |
I have been using Surpass on my horse's swollen extensor tendon without any real progress as well. I thought I was just putting it on wrong because the vet said I had to rub it in like lotion but with a hairy horse leg it can be difficult. I went back to poultice and DMSO. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3407
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 - 11:48 pm: | |
I've had Arnica lotion help also. It was given to me once by a vet that did surgery on one of our horses to help with soreness and swelling. I've also used it one myself and it helps with the soreness from arthritis. |
