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  Discussion on Calming agents for nervous horse
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Posted on Monday, Jun 21, 1999 - 2:43 pm:

Hi, I am new to this site and have already found it helpful. I have a large Tenn. Walker that I have had for over two years. He has always been very nervous about anything he sees, such as paper on the ground, a road sign, bicycles on the trail, you name it. I have worked very hard trying to desensitize him to as many things as I can think of, but he still finds things upsetting. He is much better than when I got him, but all it takes is one "scary" thing or another horse I am riding with to be acting nervous to get him going. I beginning to think he is not the horse for me although I am an experienced rider and can get him under control. My thought is before I give up on him is to try one of the "natural" calming agents I see advertised for performance horses. Has anyone tried these? Are there bad side affects? I do not want to harm my horse's health. I am afraid if I sell him he will go from auction to auction because many people comment on his beauty but none want to ride him. I am feeling confused as to what to do at this point.Sandra M. Arizona

Posted on Monday, Jun 21, 1999 - 5:46 pm:

Hi Sandra

As far as I can tell, here in Ireland most of the "calmer" products are either herbal based such as "Steddy Neddy" which is chock full of valerian, and/or they have L-tryptophan which if memory serves (Dr O will doubtless correct if it doesn't) is a precursor of a neurotransmitter which is supposed to help the horse be less anxious.

I tried a tryptophan based product on my dotty horse and it had absolutely NO effect. I was going to try the Steddy Neddy herbal stuff but it costs a fortune and a vet student friend of mine told me I should avoid meds where possible because my horse has a heart murmur but I don't know whether this is true - I would have thought it depends on the active ingredient and whether that is bad for the heart...

I'm musing on trying the Steddy Neddy so I'd be interested to hear of other people's experiences. The woman at our tack shop says it seems to either work very well indeed or not at all - individual reactions and not much in between.

There are lots of horror stories about horses falling asleep at events after being given large doses of some of these products but I'm not sure I believe them. What do others think?

All the best

Imogen Bertin

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 22, 1999 - 12:11 am:

Imogen, thanks for your response. Yes, the products I am asking about are the herbal type, not the tryptophan which I assume is a narcotic. Anyone having knowledge,please let us know what you know.Hopefully, the doctor will find time to comment also. Sandra

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 22, 1999 - 6:41 am:

Hello Sandra and Imogen,
Currently there is no scientific indication that any of these over the counter products are useful nor has experience shown any to help. It will surprise me if we don't get a few tewstimonials here however. Tryptophan is not a narcotic but a essential amino acid which is a building block for proteins. From a nutritional stand point a useful technique for calming some has been substituting fats for carbohydrates in the diet, see: The Advisor: Care: Nutrition: Fats and Oils and on that same menu see Current Concepts in Nutrition for further information.
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 22, 1999 - 2:45 pm:

Dr.O. Thank you for the information, guess I will not waste my money on these herbal supplements for my nervous horse. I went to the Care:Nutrition:Fats and Oils area but some reason my server could not pull up that file; it showed it as not there. I also went to Current Concepts in Nutrition and read that. It mentioned that farther in the article would be found recommended high fat diet but then went onto other nutrition issues and never went back to the fat diet. I did read some forum messages that mentioned adding a cup of corn oil to grains, however, I do not feed my horse any grains. He is approximately 1200 lbs. I feed him one flake alfalfa (which is protein rich in the southwest)in the morning, one flake of grass hay (usually bermuda) in the evening. In addition he gets three scoops of bermuda pellets morning and evening. Would I be able to mix the corn oil with his pellets, or would it be better to buy a high fat food supplement? Also, how much of his hay (if any) would I eliminate? I understand from some of the articles it would take a while to notice any diffrence, right. Thanks to you and Imogen for trying to help me with my guy. I enjoy him when he is calm, but never knowing what may set him off is real pain and takes away alot of the pleasure.Thanks again, Sandra, Arizona

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 22, 1999 - 4:26 pm:

What do you feed your horse?

What is the protein percentage?

Some of the "natural" horse people swear that we feed our horses too much protein and this can contribute to spookiness, being too hot-natured and skittish.

The same people suggest reducing the protein percent in your horse's diet and perhaps dressing the feed with B1 vitamin (at least I think I remember it is B1).

Dr. O has no studies to support or discount this, but as it is a water soluble vitamin and a fairly cheap supplement that you give until you can get your feeding modified, it might be worth a try.

In my own limited experience, I have found skittishness to sometimes be related to ouchiness - a saddle that is too tight, a bit that clanks or pinches, shoeing jobs that are a bit snug/not right for the horse's angles, etc. I think the occasional "ouch" response breaks a horse's concentration and can cause a startle/spook. If you ride with a western saddle, poke around on the bottom for any loose nails that may poke every so often. I've seen this be a problem several times.

If you accept that horses at ease would prefer to remain at ease and that it takes energy to spook, startle, bolt, etc. then this would suggest that there is usually a reason (learned, habitual, etc.) that reinforces the use of extra energy. The trick is to figure out what it is.

You may be right - some horse/rider teams are not well suited. But, before you give up on him, think it over a bit - maybe he is picking up some tension from you, or he could use some professional training, or you could (GRIN), or he'd respond to TTEAM, he has a sore spot somewhere, etc. ... the list is endless.

By being a less then perfect horse (which all are), he may be leading you to better skills, understanding, knowledge, etc.

If you enjoy reading when you aren't riding, I am a big proponent of a couple of books by Mark Rashid - A Good Horse is Never a Bad Color, and Considering the Horse. Both are fun to read, yet by telling stories help us think of problems from our horse's viewpoints. Maybe there is a pearl in one of them that will help with you and your horse's partnership.

You may want to keep a training diary, too. Sometimes we don't realize how far we've come until we look back at where we were ...

Happy riding.

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 22, 1999 - 4:38 pm:

Oops, just went back and read what you are feeding ...

He sure doesn't sound like he is eating THAT much protein ...

You might just want to try the B1 for a few days - the people who told me about it say that if protein is an issue, this will help noticeably in within a few days.

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 1999 - 7:45 am:

I have that link working on Fats and Oils in a Horses Diet.
admin

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 1999 - 11:34 am:

Chris, thanks for your imput. First, I want to explain more about my horse's nervousness. He will spook in his own pen at a rope dragging near him, a piece of paper blowing near by,anything that makes a rustling-type noise. Yet, large tractors, trucks, no problem. I feel something happened before I got him in his childhood (he is 8 now) that he needs to work out. I have worked with a natural horsemanship trainer (trained with Pirelli and Monty R,) and we have made big progress. But he still is so nervous acting,he very suspicious of any people in general. This is why I am looking for something to calm him, so he think more clearly when I work with him and so he doesn't spend his whole life afraid of everything. He gentle by nature, but not when he is afraid of something, he has run over trainers, trying to get away from "scary" things. I always go very slow with him, trying to build trust, but I am beginning to lose hope after two years. Thanks again for taking the time to reply. I am going to try vitamin supplement to see if it can help, can't hurt!:)Sandra, Arizona

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 1999 - 2:30 pm:

Sandra,

Sometime, people swear by Bach Flower remedies. The most commonly used is "Rescue Remedy" - it is a composite of several flower remedies and is intended to settle nerves/help with shock from injury/fear.

You might do some net searches on Bach Flower to see what you can find about them. They are available in health food groceries.

The idea is that the specific subtle flower essence will help overcome specific emotional states of people and animals ...

Bach remedies are a little on the left side of "alternative" (GRIN), but there is nothing harmful or to lose other than a couple of bucks if you try them.

You can administer a few DrOps in drinking water or on the gum or on a sugar cube.

They aren't really homeopathics in the classical sense, but they are related.

I found TTEAM ground and body work also helps a horse develop an overall sense of where his body starts and stops, as well as develops awareness of all his body parts (feet, legs, rear, etc.) There is some thinking that spooking can be overcome once a horse realizes scary things aren't really that close to his hind end ... sort of like developing depth perception relative to body and objects. You might explore the TTEAM work as a complementary help, too.

Good luck with your journey.
New Member:
Dianeric

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 9, 2003 - 4:21 pm:

I have a very nervous QH gelding. Two trainers suggested that I put him down as he is "too dangerous". I give him Quietex and ride him alone through a wildlife refuge full of scary things (hunter paces, people jogging, bicycles, motorcycles). He } pretty bad. Now he is very good. I don't know what else it could be. I doubt it is the placebo effect as I am a born skeptic.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 9, 2003 - 6:11 pm:

Unfortunatley I know of several failures with this product and no sucess stories. We have a member who had one that it may have worked on and one it did not.
DrO
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