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Tonya Skinner
Member
Username: Mftgirl
Post Number: 27
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 22, 2005 - 10:00 pm: |   |
I have found quite a bit of information on color coat genetics, but nothing on markings, meaning passing on stockings, face markings, etc. A foal of ours born Thursday has me baffled. He was born bay with a left rear sock and large star. He is out of a black stud (Palamino x black) and chestnut with flax mane and tail (sorrel x chestnut). Both horses have a star, neither have leg markings (neither do any of the grandparents). I have figured out the bay coloring in that UC Davis states the bay gene can be present in a red horse and not expressed. From this, I assumed that there was a bay somewhere in my mare's past. Any ideas on the leg marking? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 11895
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Jan 23, 2005 - 9:52 am: | |
Tonya, I have not seen any work on the gentics of "point markings" and sure is hard to find a pattern looking at foals sometimes.
DrO |
Karen Nolte
New Member
Username: Morg1
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 - 10:16 am: | |
Tonya, I know it's been awhile since you posted. I was wondering if you found the answer. I've experienced the same thing. I have a filly who was by a chestnut with flaxen mane and tail, and out of a chestnut. Both parents had a star and no other white. The filly is a chestnut with a blaze and two stockings, as well as a silver mane and tail (which would come from the flaxen gene). After she was born I researched where her markings might of come from and found a grandsire who had a blaze and 4 white socks. The dam's full sister also had a blaze, but no other white. I'm thinking that if you look back far enough in your foals pedigree you might find some answers. |
Erin L Chien
Member
Username: Erinport
Post Number: 32
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 22, 2005 - 4:37 pm: | |
Tonya-
I can't explain the bay out of a black and chestnut, unless somebody had an agouti gene in there. But the white is a bit easier. Look into the inheritance of the sabino gene. A sabino gene can hide for generations, and then, when the stars align, the white can "crop out". You can get a foal with chrome out of two solid parents. It just means that both parents carried a recessive sabino gene somewhere. I've read that they're theorizing that all white markings, especially leg markings, are a result of the sabino gene. Very interesting genetics! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12647
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Apr 23, 2005 - 7:52 am: | |
A bay from a chestnut and black is easy: The chestnut carried the bay gene but without a black gene it was not expressed. The bay gene is not a color gene it is a "distributional" gene: it distributes black to the points of the horse. With no black to distribute it is not expressed in chestnuts.
DrO |
Tonya Skinner
Member
Username: Mftgirl
Post Number: 29
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 - 10:37 pm: | |
Sorry I haven't checked this in a while. I haven't found out anything more on the distribution of white markings and genetics, although I think the sabino theory is interesting. There are a lot of sabinos in the Foxtrotter breed, so that would make sense. The agouti gene presence in a sorrel/chestnut mare has me excited as we just purchased a smokey cream stud colt that we are planning on using for breeding (which is a topic for another discussion). Since my original posting, another chestnut (and white) mare had a bay foal by our black stud. I'm seeing potential for buckskins (which are hot in our breed and not very common). |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 654
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 - 10:51 pm: | |
Tonya,
I am not recommending this farm because I have never visited there, but I do know that the woman who runs it is quite knowledgeable about the genetics of sabinos. www.sabinoarabians.com |
Christine C. Mills in NC
Member
Username: Chrism
Post Number: 1083
Registered: 4-1999
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 13, 2005 - 3:05 pm: | |
My older horse is out of a sabino patterned mare - she had white on her belly, blaze and four white stockings. My mare has the four white stockings and blaze and chin. Her one foal was sabino with four stockings, chin, wider blaze - even had the belly splash. My mare's two granddaughters have the four stockings and blaze and one has a belly spot.
So, seems to be pretty prepotent in this case.
I was showing pix of my two horses to an expatriot Saudi where I buy gas. He told me the Arabic names for both colors and said that it was considered better to have minimal to no white markings - that "cart horses" had lots of white markings.
Sort of interesting as the web site above implies that the sabino markings on Arabs were preferred.
Just my two cents. Worth no more, |
Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler
Post Number: 272
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 - 12:44 pm: | |
It's funny that a lot of breeder's prefer arabs with minimal white and now with so many half bred registered horses color is taking over, mainly painted arabs, and sabino's becoming more popular. My cousin stayed in Saudi for a while and he said the same thing about prefering minimal markings. Sabino's are very fascinating.
I like color but don't have any colored arabs, and the way life goes every time you pray for a colored foal, you get the exact opposite. I have bred solid horses out of solid parents and so on with white markings further down the line, throw a foal with white markings. Go figure. |
Ella
Member
Username: Miamoo
Post Number: 79
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 15, 2005 - 1:02 pm: | |
I know a mare with 4 high white socks and a large white star. She has had 6 foals and none of them have a bit of white on them. Her first grand baby is due in a couple of weeks. I am anxious to see if the white skips a generation.
Ella  |
