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Denise Bryant
Member
Username: Contilli
Post Number: 51
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 22, 2005 - 1:58 pm: |   |
My mare foal early by 15 days. The delivery was also complicated by the placenta (red bag) being delivered before the foal. Got him out in time but who knows how long the placenta detached before delivery.
Obvious signs that my foal is premature are:
Limp ears – although starting to purk up
Very wobbly legs
He is attentive and hears and sees like any other foal.
He has not gotten up unassisted. I’ve been pushing him every 1 ½ hours to nurse round the clock. Sometimes I can not get him up. He urinates and passes stool well and sucks well.
We took an IgG test at 16 hours and it indicated to be below 400. We took another test at 33 hours and it indicates the same. Blood work indicates all organs are functioning.
My questions are:
We plan to transfuse him in about an hour of this post. Will it be too late? He will be 38 hours old. He shows no signs of systemic illness although I understand it hides its ugly face well.
What other complications am I looking at?
Thank you!a |
Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler
Post Number: 163
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 22, 2005 - 6:27 pm: | |
Denise when you assist the foal to get up pull by his tail at the dock. It doesn't put your back out and the foal still has to try even though you are getting him up.
if that is still to hard put a long cinch or towell under his chest pull up on that and the tail if you can. While pulling up make sure your knees are bent like you are going to do a power squat. |
Denise Bryant
Member
Username: Contilli
Post Number: 52
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 22, 2005 - 7:06 pm: | |
Hi again Cheryl-
We finished the transfusion about 1 ½ hours ago. He is much worse today. His blood came back with slightly over high normals. We are checking to see if he is anemic to his mother. Other than that he maybe already septic. I can not afford the hospital. They want 6-8 thousand for a premature foal just walking in the door let alone a really sick one! I can only pray that he pulls through. He is having a tough time with the anesthesia. Although he was lightly sedated he hasn’t come out of it yet. Poor little guy.
Thank you for your ideas about lifting him. He weights almost 150 pounds. Unless I have a lift there is no way I can lift that weight. Especially when he isn’t helping.
I’ll post tomorrow the happenings.
Denise |
Debbie E
Member
Username: Deggert
Post Number: 168
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 22, 2005 - 7:27 pm: | |
Denise
I hope he does well, I had a foal who became septic within hours of delivery. The vet explained his Igg came back low because he was using up all his stores to fight the infection. She immediately placed a catheter and we began 5 days of treatments including 2 transfusions. He was able to stand though and nurse. I know what you are going through and thank goodness my husband was there 24-7. We had 6 days of intensive care to administer, but he is a strapping 4 yr old now. Good luck to you
ps. have the vets put him on meds? My foal was on
Pen vk, Gentocin, Banamine, etc. zantac, I can't remember them all now. The IV was key because he was not stressed by the treatments, no pain. |
Denise Bryant
Member
Username: Contilli
Post Number: 53
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 22, 2005 - 8:25 pm: | |
All great ideas. I sure will. He did give him antibiotics through the catheter. I got him up a minute ago and he was almost too weak to nurse. It is pitiful. I just hope we did not act quickly enough. Luckily I pushed him to do the IgG at 16 hours. He usually waits 24! It is bad enough that the transfusion was at 36 hours. I do think he is already slightly septic. He looks really, really bad.......
I'm glad to hear that your babie is 4! Congratulations on all of your hard work!!!! And on your terrific husband. Mine is not at all into horses.
It is a tough thing to go through. I lost a 5 month, #2 in the country, colt to Colitis X last August. If this little guy passes too, it will be a very hard thing for me to accept.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Denise |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12362
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 22, 2005 - 10:53 pm: | |
It is never to late to transfuse Denise but that does not mean it will prevent serious disease and death. You should now continue to monitor the foals IgG levels to be sure they have become adequate. For a complete description on this process and caring for septic foals see: Equine Diseases » Cardiovascular, Blood, and Immune System » Failure of Passive Transfer of Immunity and Equine Diseases » Cardiovascular, Blood, and Immune System » Foal Septicemia: Gram Negative Blood Infections.
DrO |
Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler
Post Number: 165
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 23, 2005 - 1:10 pm: | |
I know you are doing transfussion but would some more colostrum be of any help?
I can see about fed exing some if it would be of any service to you. I don't think I have 2 litters but the stuff I have is very thick and rich.
Are they giving him anything to ease his stomach? |
Debbie E
Member
Username: Deggert
Post Number: 169
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 23, 2005 - 2:02 pm: | |
Ditto Cheryl's comment, As I said yesterday aside from antibiotics IV we gave him a smidge of Banamine 3 times a day and Zantac twice. Nothing was oral except the zantac and I gave him beneficial yeast gut that I use. He did have a mild reaction to the second transfusion on day 3 or 4, he began to shake but it passed. I think about you and hope you are not alone trying to nurse this foal back. Besides emotionally draining it is hard work. I hope your vet is being aggressive, my thoughts are with you. Debbie |
Denise Bryant
Member
Username: Contilli
Post Number: 54
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 23, 2005 - 3:12 pm: | |
He has entered the stages of toxemia with some neurological signs. His temp is 96.4, regular respiration, but yellowing gums and a low white count. Chest and joints are clear. We are giving; fluids, Naxcel, one other antibiotic, Banamine and yes Zantac. I’ve put an electric blanket on him and gotten his temp to 99.6 in just two hours. He is restless, running with his legs etc but does not appear to be in pain. Or maybe these are signs of pain. He does not get up by himself. As long as he is not suffering I would like to try one more day. Unless, obviously he crashes…..
And yes, I am doing this alone with two little children. My daughter is 1 ½ and my son is 4. It is difficult because it is 40 degrees and pouring. My barn is 1000 feet from my home and we need to dress appropriately. It is very tiring and mentally draining. Especially because I lost a colt last August, Twins at 8 months, a pregnancy at 100 days, then two other losses after a 60 day preg checks and two surgeries which totaled over 5 thousand. It has been a tough two years. Having a non horsey husband is tough.
Thanks for your ideas and wishes. I do really appreciate it.
Denise |
Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler
Post Number: 169
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 23, 2005 - 6:57 pm: | |
Hi Denise, I pray that he gets better. Can you use a ceramic heater or heat lamp?
I understand the non horsey husband. I just remind mine that I don't ask anything of him and this is what makes me happy. Even though he's not horsey the new babies bring him to tears. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12371
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 23, 2005 - 11:37 pm: | |
We are praying for you Denise but IV fluids and lab monitoring can be a critical difference at this juncture.
DrO |
Denise Bryant
Member
Username: Contilli
Post Number: 55
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 24, 2005 - 6:37 am: | |
Okay – so when do I make the decision to stop trying?
His temp is back up with the use of an electric blanket. He is getting his medications. All vitals are good. But he just lays there. If I walk in and talk to him he picks up his head and whinnies at me. Then I need to go and prop out his front legs and lift his hind end up while balancing his withers with my knee so he doesn't fall back over. I steady him for a moment then guide him to mommy for milk. He nurses for 4-5 minutes then collapses into the spot where he will lay until I come back for the next round. Sometimes he will waddle around. I scratch his withers and pet him and he tries to nibble me back.
His last feeding was at 3 am and I went out at 6 am. He hasn't moved! The blankets are still in the exact place that I put them.
The hardest part is when he is up he seems like a 1 hour old foal which is promising.
Should we be progressing faster than this?
Shouldn't he be trying to get up on his own during the night/day?
Unless he is stimulated by me he doesn't try to get up or even prop on his elbows.
How do I make this life decision? At what point is it just enough? How will I live with the thought of “if I just gave it one more day then maybe, just maybe he would have been better?”
I just can't do this alone. I don't know what to do.
Denise |
Fran C
Member
Username: Canter
Post Number: 203
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 24, 2005 - 8:48 am: | |
Denise,
Just wanted to send my best wishes your way. I'm sure you're exhausted and emotionally drained. I can't help you with your foal, but do you have any friends/family that could take your kids for even 1/2 a day to give you a break? Are there any horse crazy teen age girls around that could help you with the foal,or taking care of your other animals even just once or twice so you could get some more rest?
I hope that you find the help you need to ease some of your burden and pray that your little foal improves.
Thinking of you... |
Denise Bryant
Member
Username: Contilli
Post Number: 56
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 24, 2005 - 9:38 am: | |
Hi Fran-
No, all of my family is in California and my husbands’ family is over an hour away and not people that can help. I really don't know anyone here. I don't have any friends that are able to give me relief either. My husband watches the kids when he gets home from work at 7:30pm so I can tend to the other horses and the little one. He is no help in the morning...... grrrr I see him for a quick smooch then he leaves for work.
I am a stay at home mom and it is so difficult with my little one. She is not very patient while giving the foal fluids. I need to hold the foal down for 1/2 hour while I hydrate him and usually Katie cries the whole time. I think she knows there is something wrong with the baby. This is completely heart wrenching.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
Denise |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12378
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 25, 2005 - 7:45 am: | |
It is not the rate of improvement Denise so much as it is the direction of improvment that is your best prognostic indicator. Without a clear dignosis and prognosis, the decision to give up is a very individual one Denise. Foals can hit a plateau where nothing seems to be happening. If the foal is able to stand (even with a lot of help) and nurse there is fair hope with intensive care.
DrO |
Denise Bryant
Member
Username: Contilli
Post Number: 57
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 26, 2005 - 7:47 pm: | |
My colt died at the hospital. They said there was nothing I could do. We were doing everything possible. A very sad, sad situtation.
Thanks for all of your help.
Denise |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 590
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 26, 2005 - 10:47 pm: | |
Denise, I am so sad to hear of this loss. I lost twin foals once out of my favorite mare. I couldn't understand it at the time because I had wanted a foal from this particular mare for a very long time, and one of the twins was a filly with the same markings as my mare. After some time, I realized that it would have been a very difficult thing for me to raise foals at that time because my third child was born a few months later, and I had my hands full.
Most of us HA members DO understand the grief of losing horses . . . and we are thinking of you and supporting you in our hearts. |
LL
Member
Username: Frances
Post Number: 86
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 27, 2005 - 2:22 am: | |
Denise, I'm so very sorry that things turned out like this after all your superhuman efforts.
Lynn |
Little King Ranch
Member
Username: Eoeo
Post Number: 149
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 27, 2005 - 4:31 am: | |
Denise, please accept my sympathies. Just lost a mare with a rectal tear and am trying to graft a colt right now. Nurse mare had a red bag delivery, her milk dried up, put her on dopomine which did kick in some milk but she probably needs to be flushed and being Easter it is hard to get a vet here for that. She doesn't particularly want him to nurse. She tolerates it if I am there. At least she isn't minding him being with her now. This is after 3 days of them being separated by a panel. This is the pits too. Have to supplement with foal-lac. Colt is strong which is good. Have lost an 8 month old filly who was drop dead gorgeous and healthy in every way but she choked and then had complications. The mare we lost we had gotten out of Ky and had high hopes for her raising babies. Bum past few months. EO |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12402
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 27, 2005 - 9:10 am: | |
My deepest condolences Denise. Now you can rest a bit.
DrO |
Fran C
Member
Username: Canter
Post Number: 207
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Mar 28, 2005 - 8:17 am: | |
So sorry to hear of your loss, Denise. Take comfort in knowing that you did your best.
Fran |
