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Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert

Post Number: 79
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have a new colt, born on April 12th at 12:12AM. He was rather large, and I had to help the mare get him out- pulled with her contractions for only four contractions until we got his shoulders out, and all went well from then on. He was unable to get up on his own for two hours, so I helped him to rise, which took us another hour, but then he nursed well and I went to bed(after dipping the navel). Next morning, he was straining to poop, so I gave him an enema, which was very successful, and he was nursing well. Vet came out at 1:00PM and pulled blood for IGG levels... called back that evening with 737 count. I consider that something to watch, so the next morning, we pulled blood again and it was still 737. To be on the safe side, he got a plasma infusion, and 3cc Gentamycin and 3cc Pennicillin ( to be given fir three days). Vet came out the next morning and pulled blood again. The count had risen to 851 so we pulled the cath. , with instructions to continue with the Gent. once a day and the Pen. twice a day for two more days. He has had to have an enema twice more since the first day enema, as I have noticed him straining(several times) with no result, the last enema being last night, which was also successful, this time the "yellow colored" milk poop. He also seems to strain upon urination(which comes out of the proper place) and continues to "dribble" urine for a while after the main stream is gone, and seems uncomfortable doing so. Sometimes he stops nursing and "dribbles" urine. HOWEVER, the good part is that he is a good nurser(as verified by a nursed bag) and, even though not as active as my past foals, he does have his times of running and playing. He does sleep longer and more often than I have seen, and he is very accepting of me coming in and letting him sleep in "my lap". I suppose this could be just his personality, and I would not worry except for the urination thing. Does this colt's behavior ring a bell with anyone? DrO, should I seek more bloodwork? Oh, the urine is a light color(not red or anything). He is just so "sweet", and I hope that is just his personality, not an indication of any illness!P.S. Of course, he is beautiful, and once again I am blessed!
Nancy
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Christine Holmes Bukowski
Member
Username: Canyon28

Post Number: 120
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I would have your colt checked for a urine leak from his bladder if I were you. Since you had to pull the foal this is a possiblity. the urine will be a normal color. I had to pull a foal several years ago, the foal ended up with a torn bladder, which if caught early , is easily repaired and will cost less than a colic surgery. he started off something like your colt, had problems pooping, several enemas were given, only had a dribble and not a good stream. then by the third day he was not eating good and started to act colicy. took him to the vet and they Ultrasounded and then did an xray which showed all the fluid accumulating in his belly. Surgery was performed and he is fine and healthy today and will live a normal life. His bladder was completely ripped open. Your colt might only have a small tear, but itis worth checking if you start seeing him off feed and also looking bloated in the belly.When a foal is in pain or discomfort, the first thing that happens is they stop or slow down nursing. You will be really able to tell if your mare has milk on her legs, or is dripping milk, this is really a bad sign of a sick foal.
A stud colt can also have problems with the uretha having a leak in it.
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose

Post Number: 575
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

It's not really uncommon to have to use more than one enema on a foal. Is he "pooping" o.k. now? It's been my experience that once they start having the "milk" bowel movements, they are o.k. in that regard. Dr. O can advise on the urine dripping much better than I can; but my tendency would be to keep an eye on it if everything else is on schedule - maybe it's just because he's immature? If he's up and active, not acting weak, and nursing, urinating, pooping, then I wouldn't be too worried. I'm assuming he looked healthy? No strange haircoat, floppy ears, etc. As to the sweet personality, count your blessings! Keep us posted, and good luck with him.
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Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert

Post Number: 80
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yes, I was surprised to have to give two more enemas after the meconium poop. Even the milk stool was a bit too solid. He was straining with no result. However, he seems to be okay in that department today(at least no straining noted) although I have not caught him pooping. He looks normal, no strange haircoat, floppy ears, etc. I will love it if he is just sweet... I have not had a sweet one in a long time! He is just kind of "quiet" although he is nursing well. I am considering the bladder tear or urethra tear. Christine, when did you have the ultrasound done on your colt? Mine does urinate with a steady stream, and then dribbles, and sometimes dribbles a bit without a steady stream. He is doing quite well otherwise. Oh, no fever, elevated heart rate or respiration either. Could something like a small tear or leak "fix itself". Of course, in my case, probably not! Thank y'all so much for responding so quickly. I LOVE this site! Gotta go "observe" some more. This colt really could not have come along at a better time...I now am missing a function that I did not want to attend! I'll keep y'all posted on how he is doing.
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Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert

Post Number: 81
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, caught him urinating normally...good stream with little color, and then going about with his business of enjoying the day! Just now, when I brought them in for supper, he began to nurse, pulled away and strained to poop(sorry about my terminology). I could see the orangey colored milk poop trying to be expelled with no luck. Now I wonder if the dribbling with urine was happenning as a result of straining to poop! Any how, I'm considering giving another enema, but want him to try for a bit on his own to deficate. I think I'll give the vet a call on this one ... four enemas seems a bit too much! Anyone have advice on the use of so many enemas? I now wish I had given him my usual enema after the first nursing instead of following the new "trend" of not giving an enema unless you spot trouble! Maybe this would have cleared up without all this straining! What is your current advice on enema use on newborns, DRO?
Thanks, Nancy
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Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert

Post Number: 82
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2005 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm terrible, asking questions and then answering my own questions! However, I called my vet and she agrees that it seems like he is having trouble pooping rather than what seemed like a bladder thing, SO since he has already had three enemas, which could cause irritation to the mucosal lining of his rectum, he is going to get 1cc of Banamine so that, hopefully, he will begin pooping on his own. I was tempted to go out and give another enema, and am now glad I did not! Let's see how this goes. Wish us good blessings! Anyone had a colt who had trouble pooping even after the milk stools came in? Like Sarah, I have not had one with trouble pooping at this point!
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 12602
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I do not give enemas unless the foal has prolonged periods of straining without producing stools. My reasoning is that all foals strain a bit, so this seems to be a natural process that enemas may interfere with. Serious impactions occur in foals given enemas. However there is no work to suggest that not giving them helps. Perhaps just the opposite hapened Nancy, the early straining may have prevented an impaction? On the other hand since you have given multiple enemas since the first day I don't think one hours earlier that first day would have made a difference.

Just as a reminder for everyone the range of normal is great in newborns and even overlaps signs of disease. When you have a uncertain concern about a newborn you look for the direction of change, is it getting worse or better? Nancy's problem seems to be getting better but certainly bears further watching. I am still concerned about fecal impaction and a urinary leak but as long as the foal is geting brighter and stronger this seems unlikely.
DrO
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Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert

Post Number: 84
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello All, what would it be like to have a foal without watching and worrying. I have absolutely no idea! Anyway, he has been straining quite a bit, including last night when I called the vet, so I went to bed with him straining a bit(no colicky signs or much pain, just discomfort). Got up AT 3:00AM, only because the dog wanted to go out, and found the colt straining in the stall. Of course I could stand it no more and "helped" him(no, not with an enema, but with a vaselined finger). The vet came out this A.M., and I admitted to my deed. She sees that he is constipated( an unusual complaint for most foals at this time in their lives...usually the opposite). He is now on Milk of Magnesia 2x daily, of which the first dose is mainly on ME! I feel that he will "learn" to go ahead and poop on his own. He is strong and otherwise healthy(no more dribbling) and, of course I feel better with Milk of Magnesia all over ME, and with the advise of my vet, y'all,and DrO, I feel "Buckley" (nicknamed for Jeff Buckley whose CD was playing when he was born)will get even stronger and make it thru this. He does seem to be getting better, slowly but surely! I LOVE HEARING FROM Y'ALL. It helps so much to be tossing around ideas and suggestions while waiting to see how a foal progresses! Hopefully, he will continue to gain more strength. I will let you know when he poops on his on... I might even open that bottle of Champagne that is in my fridge waiting for a celebration(obviously, I do not need much of an excuse). BUT, I know you horse people will understand!
Nancy
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose

Post Number: 579
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Nancy
I think I worry more over the foals than I did over my own children! I've slept in the barn for days and nights on end when they were due and slept with them after they were born when there were problems, so deffently know what you're talking about....as does most anyone else who's had a few foals! Once this little guy is "hale and hearty" you'll be deserving that champagne!
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Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert

Post Number: 85
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, Apr 17, 2005 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Sara... I'm going to bed NOW, after three nights with the mare trying to fool me into missing the birth, and five days and nights of watching that sweet sweet colt, I give it up to the Lord who has been watching the whole time, (and does not need my help). This colt is so sweet , he actually lays his head in my lap and naps ... who could resit such trust. I am in love, and though I do care about them all, and give them all my best, I feel this guy is going to be something special. Okay, he's got me hook, line and sinker!Goodnight all. I plan to stay out of that barn tonight. We will see if that happens!
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 12606
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Monday, Apr 18, 2005 - 7:38 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

There has been a recent improvement in dealing with impacted foals Nancy. For more information see, Equine Diseases » Colic and GI Diseases » Colic in Horses » Meconium Impaction in Foals.
DrO
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Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert

Post Number: 86
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, Apr 18, 2005 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

DrO, I had already read that(aren't you proud of me for doin' a little research before posting!) and now that my foal has pooped on his own (last night), I wonder if my enemas were a double edged sword! I also am wondering if the treatment would have been the same for my foal, as it was the milk stools which continued to give him the problem, so not truly meconium impaction or retention. In my case, I feel like good old TIME, patience on my part, and now the mare's foal heat, have solved the problem. Of course I will continue to worry and watch until I am satisfied all is well( not time to stop worrying and bring out the champagne,do you think, Sarah?) He is not as sweet as he was since the milk of magnesia episode...I'll spend the day working toward forgiveness for that. Maybe that will turn out to be a good thing, since he is a colt, and now wants nothing from me in his mouth! Still took a nap in my lap last night...gotta love it.
What do you think,DrO about the insertion of a little bit of vaseline to help things along, rather than the enema. It is less irritating and "invasive" like an enema, and it gives me something to do besides watching and worrying. Could it hurt?
Thanks, Nancy
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 12612
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 - 7:35 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I suspect strongly that the enemas neither hurt nor help Nancy, this was just something destined to happen. I don't think a little Vaseline will hurt either, but probably want help either.
DrO
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Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert

Post Number: 89
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 - 9:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, I think I will try doing something different as a result of all of this. I will not give that "automatic" first enema, as I did also not do this time(and was second guessing myself), BUT, I will also give more time straining to get that meconium out own his own. This time, with the mare having a hard time getting out a big foal, and the foal having a hard time rising and nursing, I was worried about him losing the strength and/or desire to nurse! HOWEVER, HOPING THE NEXT TIME, we have a better delivery, and a quicker "start up" time, I will wait on the enema, and especially more than one. I think I'll stay with a bit of lubricant in the rectum, because when that stool comes out, the foal does go about his nursing, and that surely is something that he must attend to. Maybe I did not note that it was not just the straining that bothered me, but the fact that he was using all his energy straining, then had become "tired".
Thanks Sarah and Christine and DrO... feels like y'all were here with me!
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 12623
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 20, 2005 - 6:22 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

If straining is interfering with nursing, I would treat. If the vaseline works great, otherwise give the enema.
DrO
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Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert

Post Number: 90
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 20, 2005 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Very much agree with you on that...I do not think I communicated very well at all that I was concerned about his beginning to be too tired to nurse well,although he was a very determined nurser, thank goodness! Now, if I hear from you that this brown colored stool is okay(still diarrea) not the yellow color I am used to, I'll open that bottle of Champagne!
Thank, Nancy
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 12636
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 - 7:18 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hmmmm...I prefer yellow but without other clinical signs would not worry about it, probably related to some oral medication?
DrO
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Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert

Post Number: 91
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 - 9:25 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks for not laughing at that last question(of course,you may have been...couldn't blame ya! I had to laugh myself). I'm not going to let this one interfere with my Champagne drinking. He is on that probiotic paste(last dose yesterday)...maybe the cause? My only problem now is naming him. Anybody got any ieas? Dam's name is Rahelle(El Ghazi x RL Rah Fire). Stallion's name is Baske Afire(Afire Bey V X Mac Baske). Of course, there is my farm name,MERRIFIELDS, and we have mentioned Champagne. I am THE WORST at names. My friends always have to come uo with names... at any rate, it seems my foal is certainly okay. Thanks again, DrO, for the info. This site is so informative. I love the fact that I can come to a place to look at bona fide studies to inform me, and not be looking everywhere to find these published studies...GREAT! And then to get to talk to other horse people about their personal experiences, and a vet(who is a DOG!!!) Can't beat that!
Thanks, Nancy
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D.
Member
Username: Dyduroc

Post Number: 104
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Have you opened the bottle of champagne yet? Happy to hear your little fellow is doing well.

Good luck picking a name. I'm name-challenged myself but I'll try anyway.

Helles Afire aka Gallipoli

Let us know what you pick!
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Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert

Post Number: 92
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

First of all,D., beautiful picture of your mare...always wanted a Clydesdale to ride bareback in my pasture(long time dream, and it looks like you have it)! Like the Helles Afire name! Keep em coming ! P.S. Champagne is COMING OUT TONIGHT!
Thanks, Nancy
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D.
Member
Username: Dyduroc

Post Number: 107
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks, Nancy. I fell in love with her the 1st day I saw her and have never regretted getting her (although there are days I question my sanity)! Haven't dared to ride her bareback yet but it's on my list of things to do.

Have a glass of champagne for me!
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